Episode #33 - Elite Resilience with Tj Sanders

In this episode we talk about the different ways gratitude can help with performance, how the nervous system responds in high pressure moments, and how to get the most out of your current situation. And of course we talk all about setting; tactics, ideas, tips, and queues to help any level setter reach their full potential. 

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Transcript

0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Pizza Pro podcast. In today's episode, we're joined by TJ Sanders. TJ has had a long career playing volleyball at the highest level in the world. He's a two time Olympian with Team Canada, a Polish Cup champion, and now an expert coach helping the next generation become elite setters and resilient athletes. Expect to learn the different ways that gratitude can show itself on the court, the basics of setting technique and decision making, how to regulate your nervous system under pressure, what we can learn from people who live differently than us, as well as using perspective, acceptance, and connection to elevate our on court performance.

Mathias 0:31

Before we get started, I'd like to introduce our sponsor for today's episode.

Jesse 0:35

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Mathias 0:43

Now for the first time we have a specific coach for one of the most important movements in volleyball.

Jesse 0:48

If you use code ARMSWING50 at checkout, you'll instantly get 50 percent off your first month of the Arm Swing Academy.

Mathias 0:55

once you're inside the app, you can upload a video of your arm swing, then you'll get personalized feedback direct from Nick Delbianco. He'll give you some tips on how your arm swing is looking, Then you get some on court exercises to lock in the new patterns and even a specific weight room program to help you spike harder and play pain free.

Jesse 1:12

If you're not sold yet and you just want to test it out, all you gotta do is follow the link in the description of this episode or our Instagram bio and sign up for the 7 day free trial. Then use code ARMSWING50 at checkout and get 50 percent off the first month after the trial.

1:28

But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome TJ Sanders. Hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Mathias 1:52

Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today, we are joined by TJ Sanders. Welcome to the show, TJ.

TJ 1:59

What's up,

Jesse 1:59

guys? Pumped to be here. Let's go. Yeah, we're fired up to have you too. You're joining us from Calgary? Yes, sir. Awesome. Well, I have a question and I think it's going to give our listeners a very good idea of who you are and what you value. So we'll start here. I'm curious if you can tell us a little bit about um, Elite Resilience. And your new platform, The Circle, not to be confused with the reality TV show, The Circle.

TJ 2:30

Yeah, it's close. You know, we're, look, we're at a partnership agreement that we're talking about now. Um, yeah, I mean, that's a, it's a big question that kind of starts from, there's a lot of context behind it. I mean, when I, when I was playing, I was pretty hyper obsessed with mental performance, high performance, all that sort of stuff. And there were so many moments throughout my career that I would see. Either myself having success or other people having success that maybe it doesn't translate to, Oh, they're the most physical guy or they're the best or they're the, whatever. Like, I mean, even as far back as when I was 16, you at nationals, we finished, I don't know, 30th or something like that. And if you compare that to today's terms, that's like 300 because there's so many more teams now, but so not amazing. And the next year we won nationals, we finished first. And it was funny because the provincials, I was in Ontario and the provincials that year. That was my 17th year. We finished, I don't know, 9th in Provincials or something like that. That went to Nationals and won. You know, like the classic trope of a Cinderella story. So it's kind of this like weird dynamic where, you know, you look at the difference between provincials and the nationals. We didn't get technically better or tactically better, but something clicked, right? And I think you see this happen all the time with, with, you know, self belief and all these kind of things. And so that was always interesting for me. I mean, I joke all the time, like I'm short and I don't jump high. So I had to figure something out, right? Like something had to click a little bit. You know, the cool thing is about being a setter is you have a unique opportunity to run an offense, to lead, to, you know, influence the team in different ways. Um, so I was always very obsessed with that. I mean, reading what I can about it. Uh, you know, there's so many moments like when we were with Team Canada, we lost to Cuba in 2015, was, you know, the worst loss of all of our careers. Like it was First of all, embarrassing, we got destroyed and it was in Canada and it kind of looked like we wasted the best opportunity we would have to go to the Olympics and you know, it was like the next day we hired a mental performance coach and then we had this really long winded kind of backdoor way of actually getting to the Rio Olympics where we had to play way more teams. It was a lot harder. And then in our opening game of the Olympics, beating the U. S. 3 0, coming second in that, like, pool of death. Again, over a really short period of time, a lot of things changed. And, you know, I just, again, even, we see this happen all the time overseas, where momentum's kind of a big thing. Even if we reduce it to, look at the momentum in one set of a match. Or even, like you were just talking about. The momentum of that comeback win. Okay, we know that happens. That's not a physiological or it's not a technical thing that's happening. Right? It's something else that's happening. And so, again, being very curious in that, I, uh, you know, always wanted to understand how that could help my performance, help my team's performance. And then when everything happened with, uh, you know, my injury and I couldn't really play or practice or do, I was in a lot of, again, very unique situations and trying to figure out some advantages. Uh, and then ultimately when I retired. And then I went and I was living up in the, uh, up in the Arctic, up in the North, uh, and also kind of running a psychosocial program and working with volleyball players. Also seeing how performance wasn't as binary as I thought. It's not like, work on this one really specific technique and you're gonna get better. Yeah, okay, that's a part of it, but also sometimes there's some mental barriers that were, you know, maybe I tell myself I'm a bad server. And then I just keep, that's a self fulfilling prophecy to some degree. So that stuff started to happen and then I ended up having a conversation. It would have been maybe like eight months ago now with, with a good friend of mine named Jordan Guy. And she, uh, she's got a baller CV. She like played overseas for a little bit. Then, uh, I got a master's degree in conflict resolution in Rwanda. Then was working in a reserve outside Calgary. Now is a psychotherapist overseas. And she was sharing, she's kind of a part of this. Research group and she was sharing some of the stuff they've been doing and it's looking at sort of nervous system regulation and development and connecting it to high performance, right? How much do you guys know about nervous system stuff? Does that make sense to you? Nothing? No,

Mathias 6:42

not much. I

TJ 6:43

probably know 2 percent more than you. Like, I want to stress. I'm not the expert. Jordan is very much the expert. I'm just somebody who's has a lot of lived experience and community around this stuff. But the basic idea is, you know, let's say a bear walks into my office. Obviously my nervous system is going to light up, right? I'm in survival mode. I've got to figure out how do I survive this situation. You've probably heard of like fight, flight, freeze, right? Those are kind of the common responses. What's funny is that as a human being, I don't know the difference between a bear coming into my office or being down 2 0 to UBC or it's 24 24 or my coach just yelled at me or I just got subbed out. It feels like a threat. That's right. You know, we say that we get defensive sometimes, you know, when our coach says something or when whatever, we're literally trying to defend ourselves. We, we can't distinguish that so much. And so they were looking at how is that influencing performance and what can we unlock to seek out better performance, right? Because we've all experienced it. I've, you know, you lose it at a ref or a teammate gives you a weird look kind of battling that inner working of who we are as people in trying to find performance. So a lot of what Elite Resilience was built off of is, okay, how do we connect all of that to volleyball, right? Again, volleyball is a unique sport. It's very team centric. We never hold on to the ball, right? We just got to be in the right spot and nope, you know, it works. Momentum plays a big part in it. Uh, so we've kind of been developing Jordan. So my, again, being the expert, it's, it's mostly through her, but our experience, you know, we've been building out a curriculum of how to bring this stuff into volleyball. And the funny thing is, is seeing from my experience, you know, in the last few years, working with thousands of athletes and seeing, you know, volleyball across North America. There are so many volleyball players, it just exploded that naturally, because of that, the infrastructure doesn't support it in the same way. So there's a lot of athletes that just have really challenging experiences, or even, you know, look at the transfer portal and the NCAA, or you look at, you know, in Calgary, there's like 50 clubs now. Like when I grew up, there was one club and one team for that club, you make it or you don't, like it was pretty straightforward, right? And if you didn't make it, you probably go try out for another sport, right? Where now there's such a different level of competition that Naturally, there's a lot of hardships that come with that. That's, that's normal. And so the circle is a platform built to try and support athletes go through that, right? Like to kind of be able to develop some skills and have some resources to handle that. And what's neat is we started with, uh, founding members. I believe we have 30 now that are professional athletes or High level college or university athletes that are already taking part in the exercises and the workshops and the whatever and then when the young athlete comes in, they get to participate with them, you know, so like Eric Lepke's one, um, you know, Cody Kessel's one, a bunch of American players, Sidney Hilly, Tori Dilfer Stringer, right? A bunch of these really high level players were, you know, the way I looked at it was they want to understand high performance. They want to get better. Let's have them a part of this and participate in it. And then again, if you're a 15 year old kid and you're like, okay, mental performance, what that seems so overwhelming, you could come in, you could watch how they're doing it, you know, like Eric just left a comment on one of the videos and one of the courses he watched. Okay. You can see what's his experience going through that course. You can ask questions to all these pros again, for the idea of performance is sometimes limited by our own, you know, natural humanness. And then at the same time, you know, a lot of athletes are struggling with a bunch of different things. Right. And I think that's very reasonable. I imagine me, I couldn't imagine being, um, a 15 year old kid and you got to go to school all the time and you're on this team and you're in this and this that and there's all this pressure on you to do all these different things. Um, yeah. So just trying to support all those athletes again, that was kind of like a long winded, tried to make it as short as I could. I think that

Jesse 10:32

was awesome. I think everyone knows exactly kind of what kind of guy you are and, and, uh, how, how much passion you have. For volleyball and for helping the next generation. I think that's really cool. I think this will be a great conversation. There's

Mathias 10:46

a couple things I want to unpack there because there was a lot of cool stuff in there. Um, what, what, what changed for you guys after that 2015 loss to Cuba? What were some of the main rocks of what the mental performance coach did for you guys to be able to turn things around so quickly? Like you said, almost instantaneously.

TJ 11:08

Yeah, I mean, I think the first big thing was that we started addressing stuff. You know, I think, I think before that, like before that Cuba game, we looked at nerves or, you know, we're supposed to beat this team, but we're not or vice versa, as we didn't want to talk about it. Right? Like, I think we've all felt that where, you know, you go into a game and you're nervous and somebody asks you, Oh, are you nervous? And you're like, no, I'm a man. I was like, no, I'm a high performer. I don't get nervous. As you're, you got butterflies in your stomach and your palms are sweaty and whatever. I think the, the big first step was we acknowledge that, that, okay, we didn't perform how we want to. And we need to look at that and try to address it. I mean, we had a history of doing that as well. I mean, the Pan Am Games this summer prior to that, we lost to Argentina in the semifinals in a game that we shouldn't have lost. And, you know, it was kind of infamous. We used to always reference that we sort of choked in that game. And there was, you know, moments you could point at, uh, you know, through my time with the national team, that that stuff was happening. And I think we were just kind of fed up for it, you know, like fed up with it. I think there's moments where you kind of get pushed into a corner like that. And we're like, okay, we have to get this mental performance coach. We have to look at things what's going on. You know, so the first thing was just. awareness of it, I think, which is big. Um, and then there was, you know, a ton of tools. Probably the most simple one is, did you guys ever use the RAR? Yeah, this is like, this is like the most simple, I mean, Kyle's awesome. And he changed the program in a lot of different ways, but it was like the most simple tool that, you know, I think all of us, including myself, I'm like, okay, this isn't going to make it. Big difference, like recognizing these things and then reconnecting. But it's funny that there's, there's something to be said about when you are a part of a team and everybody's leaning into the same thing. And everybody has this same inertia behind their mental performance. I mean, all of a sudden it didn't really matter what happened. If things go wrong, it's like, how do we reconnect? We're all kind of like reconnecting together. And, and it just became an amazing tool for me because how many times in a game are you distracted, is your attention going somewhere that you don't want it to be going right? So many times every rally. Every point, something happens that pulls your attention away and to have the capacity to continue to bring it back to the next point, I just think was super valuable. So there was a, there's a bunch of tools like that, a bunch of kind of like theories and concepts we talked about. Um, but I think the biggest thing was bring some awareness into it and we all started diving into sort of, you know, doing the work a little bit. And

Mathias 13:36

RAR stands for recognize, accept. Reconnect. Is that right?

TJ 13:41

Nails it. I was testing you there for a little bit. Yeah, exactly. Recognize, accept, reconnect. That's cool.

Mathias 13:47

I really like the acceptance part. Um, because I think that that kind of ties into what you were saying before about, oh, we shouldn't lose to this team or, uh, the expectations you have before a game, um, because then you have, you have this, like, arbitrary standard or goal that we're supposed to beat this team. And then when reality sets in that you're not beating that team, I think that's when, like. At least for me, things would crumble because it's like this, this is not supposed to be happening. This isn't how I thought it would, would go. All that stuff. But then I think that's that acceptance. Like, okay, this is reality right now. And then, like you're saying, the reconnection. But I like what you said about doing it as a team.

Oog 14:32

Yeah, I think like a lot of the times, especially in esports, guys are really only stuck on the first R. Like they recognize that something's going wrong. Then it just takes over, like mentally, like, and then they're just distracted. And I think I like, I really like the acceptance part because yeah, like Tia said, like even this weekend, like me sitting on the beach or not on the beach, the bench, I was on the beach before, let's go. Um, I uh, like I recognized that like, okay, we're down 2.0 in a, in a eSports or can West Bronze like, and I accepted that. I was like, this is not how I thought we were gonna go down, but. This is, this is okay. And I think everyone else on our team accepted that. And then they were like, okay, but what do we need to do to win the next point and then just point after point after point And we chipped away, but yeah, that's, I really like that.

Mathias 15:24

TJ, what do you think about, um, the difference between like, to me, resilience seems like you're kind of fending things off, whereas an acceptance is almost like you're letting them in. And I've, I've come to the conclusion that I think mental toughness is more letting things in and then letting them go rather than fending them off. Is that something that you've noticed as well in your?

TJ 15:57

Yeah. I mean, I kind of hearing the language there, fending things off sounds like, um, you know, like deflecting things, which obviously your experience is your experience. You can't change that. Right. And we're not in control of it. That's it. That bear comes into my office. I'm not in control of rising my heart rate or, you know, my palms are getting sweaty That's not, that's completely automatic. And so something that we talk about actually our last workshop was based on sort of this autonomic flexibility and autonomic mobility. So if I look at, you know, mobility, that's very much okay. I know that I'm going to be in difficult situations. How can I prep myself to get into a flow state more easily? Flexibility is I'm going to be hit with it. Challenging. Maybe you have a tough relationship with your coach. That's just an easy one to kind of pick. Okay, you know that the game's probably going to be tough, and they're probably going to say things to you that aren't great. To your point, yeah, I can deflect that. The tough thing that I've always noticed with deflection, this goes back to the acceptance piece, is then it comes back, obviously. Like that feeling, whether it be the nerves or the coach or whatever. Then it comes back, and you've now proven to yourself that you can't do anything about it. Because you didn't. You just tried to ignore it. So then it comes back, and it comes back a little bit stronger. Then you try and ignore it again, and then it comes back a little bit stronger, so on and so forth, and then that Leads to, I believe, you know, some part of when we look at athletes, choking are really not being able to perform in the way that they want to, as opposed to, yeah, if you're nervous going into a game, okay, cool. It means you care about it. It means you're excited. It means you're, there's, there's so many factors that are not negative. Right? Inherently. Um, so I totally agree. I think, you know, looking at performance, even, you know, I did a talk way back where it was, uh, I think it was titled something like vulnerability is high performance. And my point was, okay, if I'm, you know, not jumping my best, I got to acknowledge that because I got to find different angles to swing on, or if I'm not doing it, like, you know, even when I was with my back injury and I had my back brace and was taking pills and wasn't blocking and wasn't even standing float serving, okay, I'm not going to pretend that I was the guy I was two years ago. I got to like adapt and try and see what I can do now. And I think that's what resilience is, how we define it. Right. It's like, okay, you're going to be thrown so many different things. Okay. How do we adapt that? What do we want that to look like? Right. And some of the things, you know, we can start mapping out the patterns that we respond to. Right. And we can understand, oh, yeah, that's just me being triggered by this again. So I want to respond this way. But I totally agree with everything that you guys said. Like, acceptance is hard, right? It's the amount of times that I've been in a club volleyball gym and one team goes up 7 2. And then two seconds later, it's 8 7 for the other team. And everyone's in full panic mode. And then all of a sudden, it goes back to the other teams, then up 15 8. And the other team goes back into panic mode. I'm like, yeah, but you just came back from 5 point. Like, this is happening all the time. You know, or like, I was talking to one of my athletes a couple days ago, and I think it was something like they had a 9 2 lead. And then all of a sudden, it was 9 6 and they took a timeout. And their team was like panicking. And I'm like, yeah, but you're, it's funny how even though you're up three points, You're still panicking because we just lost the last four points, right? And we all know that feeling is a volleyball player. But again, if we can just accept the situation we're at, I kind of asked him, I was like, Oh, well, if you were told you're going to go into this first set and you're going to just start up nine, six, how would that feel? Yeah, I'd obviously feel awesome because I start with this guaranteed three point lead instead in that moment It feels terrible because they just lost the last four points right which at the highest level of volleyball It still happens like there's times where a guy Leon will go back to serve and he gets three aces in a row Okay. I can't be worried. Okay. He had three amazing serves. All right. Well, let's try and win this point. Now, you know, I think that like momentum shifting, dynamic and valuable is something that we can take advantage of, you know, that can become something that if we don't let those swings happen as dramatically, you know, we can perform better. And I agree Tias. So I think we need to, you know, allow it to kind of come within us and be very authentic with what our experience is so that we can use the tools for the appropriate tools and resources to overcome it.

Mathias 20:21

That, that's cool. That's, I was thinking about meditation there, because that's kind of what, uh, from my experience, the, the goal is, is just like a noticing of what's going on in your mind with pretty much no action taken, which maybe in game you do want to take action, that's the last R, is like reconnecting to something else, but meditation, just letting the thoughts come in, Thinking okay, that's kind of weird or that's kind of cool or I don't know why I'm thinking that but then just a moving on Letting it letting it pass kind of thing But I think the noticing part is massive and that's when you can actually start to work on on What's going on because if you're just like fully Engaged in the thought and fighting it and trying to work through it instead of like a little bit of perspective I feel like that's where where you can actually start to work through it Have you meditated much I feel like you're a guy who has

TJ 21:18

I have. Yeah. I mean, I, um, I definitely have for a long time. I definitely, when I, I mean, when I was injured, I was like, Hey, I'm going to try everything. I had like a breath work coach that I worked with up to the Jogi Olympics. I tried everything I could because I was like, okay, I know I'm a shell of myself physically. But maybe there's some other advantages that I can, that I can take. I, I totally agree that meditation, that's a huge part of it. I mean, just being able to regulate yourself enough to be present with those uncomfortable feelings, like nobody wants to go back and get aced. It feels brutal. Like we're designed as humans, again, for that to feel bad. It's, all that is is your body telling you, Well, we don't want that to happen. That's all it is. It's not actually bad. Nothing's objectively bad. You go and you lose a game, Okay, like you, you're gonna lose games all the time. Like the classic, you know, idea in sports, that failure is where you learn the most. Everyone would tell you that, yet when you fail, it still feels terrible. So you gotta first kinda be able to be present enough with that feeling. To then exactly, like you said, let it pass work on the next point, whatever it is. Um, but yeah, I definitely have meditated a lot. You know, I, I, the idea of, um, You know, sort of the mindfulness meditation piece where you're just kind of letting thoughts come in and out, uh, you know, still plays a, plays a role in what I, in what I do. I have a lot of, uh, you know, guided meditations that I was doing. I was doing some transcendental stuff for a little while, obviously doing the breath work stuff. Yeah, like I think, it's just funny how you start to realize. On the court, we all have some crazy thoughts sometimes, like really random crazy thoughts. That's normal. Like our body's designed to, you know, scan the area, make sure we're safe, do all these kinds of other things that it's not a bad thing if you have these thoughts. Right. If they hold on to you and you're stuck there and you spiral and you're in your head and you, you know, are triggered enough to then respond and act inappropriately, all that stuff. Yeah, then it is bad, but that's not the actual thought. That's the bad thing. It's the response to it.

Jesse 23:23

I, uh, I've been thinking about regret a lot recently. Um, actually, I'm gonna ask this question first and then I'll, I'll bill you on all my thoughts. But do you think going through your career or your season? Trying to avoid regret. is a beneficial way to achieve high performance?

TJ 23:48

Trying to avoid regret. I think, well, it's an interesting question. I think, I think it depends how you define that. Like, I think a lot of ways that could be a really great thing because you can put yourself in your, your future self's shoes and say, oh, is this how I would want to act? Right. And I have a lot of examples. I mean, when I was younger, I, I acted in a lot of ways that I'm not. necessarily happy with or I wouldn't today, um, and yet telling myself that, that, okay, I'm going to look back on this and not want to act this way can influence my behavior for sure. I think, again, if I'm in a state where I'm reactive or dysregulated or, you know, like caught up in my emotion or something like that, it's very hard to act logically. So that logic of, oh, in the future, will I regret this might be out of touch. You know, with us. I think it might be a little bit too far away. I, I, I completely agree with you though. Like I, I used to ask myself that, you know, especially when I'd be having difficult moments overseas or different things like that. It's like, okay, how do I want to show up? How do I want everybody in this town to remember me? How do I want to look back on this year? Uh, and remember the year for sure. That's a really valuable exercise. And I think something that, you know, you can journal, you can go through in a bunch of different ways. And yeah, I think that's a really valuable tool. I think in the height of the moment, I It might be tough to get to, but as a practice, I think it's super valuable, but I'd love to hear. Yeah. Your experience.

Jesse 25:18

No, that's a, that's a good point with the reactionary thing. I was more thinking of on along the lines of recently I've been going into games saying I'm my goal is to finish this game and have no regrets. Like if I'm on the line, I want to hit my serve. If I see something and I think about saying something, I don't want to look back and be like, I should have said something in this moment because I have a lot of regrets from my career so far. Like small ones like that. Like I, I could have changed the momentum or I could have helped that guy more. I should have hit my serve there. So that's been my thing. But I, I asked the question because I don't know if that's actually a positive way to perform. If I'm trying to, well, I guess, yeah, like you said, depends on how you look at it. Am I trying to avoid something or am I trying to take action and do something?

TJ 26:12

think it's a great starting question. Or a starting idea of, okay, I want to, I want to leave with no regrets. And then deciding what does that mean? Is it, I want to be able to express myself fully? And me not swinging on that ball is just me being passive and playing small? Or is it the right decision? You know? I think dancing with that nuance a little bit is, is important as an athlete. Yeah,

Jesse 26:37

that's interesting. I, uh, I'm curious about who the most mentally tough teammates you've had. Are or who you enjoy playing with the most that you know that they're going to have your back No matter how they're playing no matter what kind of day they're having.

TJ 26:56

Yeah. Okay. There's I mean There's a lot of guys The cool thing about that too is it shows up in different ways like I I play with guys that I would you know describe as mentally tough and they get like Loud and intense when things aren't going well to force themselves back into something else I play with other guys that they get quieter and they just dial it in a little bit And they then focus on their, you know, the back to basics and they focus on their task. Um, I played with a lot of guys in Poland that were, I felt like they were robots, even when we were doing well or bad. Like they, they, they were always pretty consistent. Like Pete Nowakowski was a middle where it just didn't matter. It looked boring to him. Like, even when things didn't go well, he's just like, well, whenever I'll go make a great next play. I don't know. Um, Matt is another guy, a lot of guys with our national team, but there's always nuance to that one. Just cause I played with them for so long that most of the guys I played with, I also played with and they were 19 and obviously there's a lot of learning and growth throughout that. I mean, you know, Gore parents, somebody that was always just super stable. I think both stable technically as a volleyball player, like a good passer, you know, could do all these different things, but then always kind of. Knew how to bring it. Never was like the guy going crazy on the court, you know, like that wasn't his personality, but was always, you know, really stable. Um, but it's probably a little bit easier to account for, you know, coaches and athletes that I played for that got caught up in it. You know, I think it's, it's the kind of guy that you notice that's almost like you don't notice them. That is probably the most stable. Right. Cause they're never getting caught up in different things. Um, which I just think is a superpower. It doesn't mean that you're going to inherently just perform better, but it means you're giving yourself the opportunity to maybe reach that potential a little bit more than the rest of us. That's really cool. It reminds me of, uh, the inner game of tennis. You read that? I did I feel like I read it so long ago though. I was looking at your guys, uh list of books And I was like, I gotta reread that that's been so long ago. Yeah,

Jesse 29:01

that that's the whole idea is not really the robot idea But you don't change good or bad, you know, you don't attach Positive emotion you don't attach negative emotion to certain actions or to all actions And then they're all the same and they remain this, this flat line of, of focus is the goal. Focus is the goal.

TJ 29:22

Um, and I think that's kind of the same idea of, you know, stoicism and all these different, uh, principles. I think the interesting thing with that is, and I used to very much, you know, kind of preach that to a lot of my athletes, cause that's probably like step one is if we're always like this. Cause the same thing is, let's say you're playing amazing and you go up five, zero and you're just vibing and things are so good. Then when you lose the next two points. All of a sudden that thought in my head of, Oh my gosh, we're so good. We're unstoppable is challenged and might not be true. And then you might be deflated faster than, you know, if you would have just stayed even, and that's what you see with any really, really high performer is inherently, unless they're just, you know, physically a freak, whatever, it's going to be pretty standard in the responses. And I think what's cool too, is you look at. You know, experience like if you play the game for a long, long, long time, every mistake or every great point just does have inherently a little bit less value, right? Like if you've only hit 100 balls in your life, the 40 kills that you got are going to feel amazing. If you've hit, you know, 2 million, then a kill is a normal experience, right? So you're not as pumped about it. You're now thinking about, okay, how do I get this kill to set up the next one? How do I do this and that? And I think, you know, being a setter. And reflecting on experience, it's about layering those as much as you can. And so, me making a great set or a bad set, yeah, I almost don't even care. Or, you know, if I'm working with a young athlete and they make a bad set, I'm like, whatever. Actually, Dave Preston, uh, one of my coaches once, used to always say, K, yeah, if you go and you make a bad set, don't try and correct that error right now, just go make a good one. Like, it's gonna happen. You know how to make a good set. And sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in overcorrecting or, you know, doing all these kind of different things where, the reality is, we're gonna fail. And in a sport like volleyball, we're probably gonna fail a lot, but okay, then can we still kind of get back to it? But to that point, I think there's an element of, I think it can go a step further than just being sort of stoic through it all. Where can I actually leverage when the momentum's on my side, right? Like, you do also want to lean into that. I don't want to just not use that to my advantage. So it's sort of that dance of, okay, how do I use that? Without it becoming out of my control and ultimately, you know, becoming a detriment in the future while still, you know, making sure that when it goes down, I'm not getting, I'm not beating myself up too much.

Mathias 31:51

Do you have a definition of momentum?

TJ 31:58

Um, I don't know if I would have a definition. I would say the feeling that you have when you're losing control is when you're losing the, like, you know, the other team has the momentum. It's funny, you know, when we've kind of talked about flow states and stuff like that with elite resilience. It's going to be different for everybody, right? Like when you guys are vibe and sometimes, you know, I've heard people describe it as I feel nothing. I'm just like, I'm not even thinking, I'm not even feeling, I'm just moving. I've heard other people describe it as I feel pumped up. I feel other people describe it as I'm really connected to my teammates, right? Like it can mean a bunch of different things. I think when you, when the momentum's on your side, it's when you're in that flow state. And naturally, you know, we all know those experiences where you get the tape ace randomly, the weird wipe off the block, this happens, whatever, like you can just feel it. Um, we're on the flip side of it. It's like when everything feels like it can't go your way, right? Like where, what, like randomly on team Canada, nobody calls the ball and a free ball drops or something like that. Like that would never happen in that. In the normal situation, uh, yeah, it happens sometimes, uh, those are kind of the extreme versions. I think in literally in every set of volleyball, it's just swings of points, right? Probably anytime you win more than two points, especially in the men's game, that's like you kind of are holding onto that momentum. Um, and so I think, yeah, for me for a long time, it was just, I don't want to care about the momentum because it's going to be there anyway. Where if I'm distracted by that, again, go to recognize, accept, reconnect. If I'm constantly distracted by it. And I don't recognize it, accept it, and ultimately reconnect to the next point. Then I'm trapped. I'm like, you know, I have to surrender to the, to the momentum a little bit. Where, again, that, and that was an important lesson for me as a setter where, kind of like I referenced earlier, there's a lot of times where you play really, really, really good servers. And they're going to go back, and your team's going to suffer. You're going to lose points. They're going to take the momentum back. If I get caught up in that, especially when it's something that I really don't have any control over, I can't pass to myself. Nor would I want to, um, but it's one of those things where like, would, uh, I can either get worried about it, caught up starting to look at what ifs of, oh my gosh, if they get another one, we're down by three and then we have to do it. Or I can just try and play the point again. Um, but it's basically just like when you feel like you're in the driver's seat, when you feel like when the other teams in the driver's seat.

Mathias 34:30

It is, it is pretty incredible sometimes how much momentum there can be, like when a team can just do no wrong. Those are like incredible runs to watch sometimes where everyone on the team is just completely locked in, in their flow state, whatever that means for them, like just full commitment to every action. Like it's pretty cool to see that's, like you're saying, rare. It's more like those micro, micro runs and shifts in momentum. Um, so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying it's not super valuable to focus on the momentum and trying to gain momentum or shift the momentum more on your individual state and your flow state?

TJ 35:19

I think like, yeah, okay, I think there is some value in recognizing there's going to be momentum. So if I were to put it back into my shoes, as a setter, I want to know, I'm constantly evaluating, okay, what are my attackers experiencing right now? If this guy just got aced twice, I'm going to have some guys I played with where that's going to fuel them up and I'm going to give them the next set of system ball and they're going to score. There's up there guys that they're stuck in their head now and they're feeling anxious and they're going to tip it over the block the next play. I want to know. You know how that momentum is going to influence them because that's going to influence my decision making so I do want to be aware of it. I'm not trying to again. I'm not trying to deflect it. Let's say, but I also wanted to use kind of your verbiage is I also wanted to pass through me. I don't want the fact that they got three points in a row for me to be stuck thinking, Oh, my gosh, how are we going to come back? Are we ever going to come back? Because again, I'm just blown away every like I'll go to nationals again this year. Every time I'm there, it's like 59 2016 25. You can just feel that momentum shifts so dramatically where it doesn't have to, again, there's been, there's been games that I've played where I've been in a flow and it's four, four, but I know we're going to win, right? Like maybe we don't have the momentum, but we did all the things we should. Like there's not only just the sort of momentum of there's this big swing of points. There's also okay. Are we committed to our actions? Are we connected? Right? You could we can go watch any game and you could say, Oh, yeah, that offense is really like there's rhythm there. It's in flow. Or we could look at other ones where we're like, Oh, it looks disjointed. Something's not happening there. And when that happens, kind of kicks you out of that. And it's obviously harder to build that momentum back. So again, yeah, I want to be me. in tune with the match and what's happening, but I don't want to get lost in that. A great example would be like the, not the 2015 Cuba game, but the 2020 Cuba game where we lost the first two sets and they had obviously all the momentum. We played not bad, but they beat us whatever 25, 22, 25, 19 or something. And we're all like, okay, we played pretty well. Like what, what are we going to do here? Uh, and just. Continuing to commit to our shots, do what we can completely shifted the momentum. Then I think we won one of those sets, like 25, 14 or something, uh, and went back and won in five. So I think as a volleyball player, again, I, I don't know if it's just fully unique to volleyball. I'm sure it's to a bunch of different sports, but the fact of how team centric it is again, you can't like, hold on to the ball, right? Like basketball momentum is gonna be different because maybe you want to slow it down or maybe you want to. You know, you can change your strategy a little bit where you can't really do that in the same way in volleyball. So, you know, I want to, I want to be aware of it, but I don't want it to dictate what the next point is going to be like, or what the next, you know, sequence of the set is going to be like,

Jesse 38:25

I think it's cool. Yeah, we should move into your questions in a sec. I just. I don't know if, if people realize how big of a game that was. I think every single guest we've had on here that was, took part of that game, mentioned it in some capacity, like for, for you guys as athletes, but also for our country and for our program, that game changed a lot of things for a lot of people for a, for a long time to come. I think

TJ 38:55

the, the 2020 cube game. Yeah. Yeah, that was a cool one. I mean, I, I've unlimited stories around that one. Um, especially because so I was playing in Poland in November, like up until November. So my back wasn't great. Tried to play a little bit that summer. Not great. When overseas, you know, the reality of playing overseas is you're there to win games kind of thing. So, you know, I kind of pushed myself maybe a little bit further than I should have. And yeah, You know, again, going back to, like, regrets and all that sort of stuff, right? It's just a funny thing. I'm like, okay, well, that also led to a lot of different cool experiences, but would I do it the same over again? If it was me right now, my shoes probably not. Anyway, but then I came back and I was like, oh, I got two months to train for that game. Like things are going to be great. Like that's such a long period of time. And I, and I never got there. Like I never, never recovered even until like, you know, the few days leading up to it, I was not really able to practice with the team. So much. Um, and so it was a weird game. I actually had a really cool conversation talking to Kyle. And a lot of what, a lot of what we think about in, in mental performance is like, okay, use the experiences you have to build confidence in yourself. Like, okay, I'm going into this game against Cuba. Okay. I've played hundreds of matches with, you know, the national team, or I've done a hundred of like, there's things that happen all the time. You've been here before you can do it. And I remember talking with Kyle and, and sort of mentioning, you know, I've never done this. I've never not really been able to practice with the team and have to put a back brace on. And. You know, take some meds and standing float serve in front of whatever it is, 8, 000 people like I still remember the first time I did because I got subbed in, um, for a little bit during the Mexico game to see how it kind of feel. And I, and I standing float serve the ball in and, and I just remember how long the run was from where I served to the defensive position where I think they hit it before I got there. And I was like, Oh my gosh, cause I'm like waddling with my back for some I'm like this is embarrassing I got to dial this in a little bit But anyway I remember having that conversation and he's like well well what do you want from this game Like what what does this game mean to you Like what do you want And I'm like well to win Kyle obviously Right And he's like oh okay But think about it like more than that Cause at this point I knew that if we lost that was probably going to be my last game Like I was probably kind of forced into retirement a little bit and it had been I don't know what was it like 19 months of of kind of battling this back injury And I was like Oh you know what I'm he's like what were you what are you feeling What are you feeling going into the game tomorrow It was the night before the Cuba game And I was like well I'm kind of just like grateful that I get to play that there's like a chance that I get to go play in Canada with all my buddies maybe for the last time ever And he was like okay any time something happens that you don't want to happen or you're caught up in the moment or whatever just remind yourself how grateful you feel right now that tomorrow you get to play Just remind yourself how grateful you are that there is this opportunity And I still remember after that second set when we lost Like kind of having a weird smile on my face like a little bit Like I was just like oh but this is still super cool Like we're battling and people are chanting Canada in the crowd like you know things are going our way Even at that moment I'm like you know maybe I'll get subbed out Like I've been kind of like a shell of a of a player out here Like you know I'm kind of bracing myself for that And then I remember I'm in the lineup again So I get to go back out and I'm like oh my gosh okay I'm just gonna soak this up This is awesome Where I promise you going into that 2015 Cuba game when we're down 2-0 I'm not thinking this is awesome It's awesome I'm thinking Oh my gosh my career is going to be over Oh my gosh are we going to blow this Oh my God And then we get destroyed in the third set where that 2020 one it was so easy for me to have composure and to be excited and to be happy and to be you know all these kinds of emotions that we would associate as positive emotions Even though we just lost two sets of one of the biggest games of my career and again just such a reminder of how you know the the mental side of the game the your nervous system your approach your perspective your mindset are so powerful right And I just remember then we started coming back and I just remember that I still remember one set where I was like blacked out I I set Nick and I like it was like I didn't even touch it You know the flow say where like everything just kind of works and he just absolutely bounces it And it was only I don't know it was still like early slash mid point of the set And I was like oh we're going to win this game so easily And we're down 2 0 and we're up like 7 5 I'm like oh this is no problem Right I remember having that feeling and I'm like oh yeah this is this is we got it Um but yeah it was such a funny such a funny experience for me Where you know in a lot of realities knowing that it was Potentially my last game could have been a hindrance to all that I could have been caught in my head in it And it was such a good reminder from Kyle to just like okay you've been you've been wanting to play a game exactly like this for the last 19 months And you haven't been able to do any of that All right Like even if it's one last straw that's pretty cool

Jesse 43:59

That's so cool I love hearing the different stories and perspectives from the different So like we talked to Mara last week and how his preparation from the year before the next year was just insane like so strict And then we hear you this story from you and it's just really really Cool I don't know It's yeah

Mathias 44:17

it's really special Would would you consider gratitude to be a gateway to a flow state

TJ 44:27

I I really like that being put that way I don't know if I necessarily have um but 100 I think you know there was a long period of time especially when I was overseas Like as you know maybe some of our listeners will know and as you guys kind of know like it's it's very challenging at times and a lot of those core values your the way you want to live your life is going to be challenged And at the same time there's also you know it's a choice you're making and there's a lot of things to be grateful for Especially when you know I it was a I look back to that injury I am profoundly grateful for that injury Like I've very much changed who I am my the course of my life my relationship with my teammates my relationships in my life have changed because of that My approach and view to supporting other athletes has changed a lot where I wouldn't have had any of that uh to the same degree anyway without it Yet it's obviously the worst thing to happen in my career Like in a pretty dramatic amount Um I I I love that Yeah I mean if you're out there and you're authentically embracing gratitude you're probably 90 percent of the way there to a flow state right Like you're just you're going to be present You're going to be connected to your body your teammates You're going to be regulated That's a word you know regulation and dysregulation that I use often You're going to be regulated AKA like your nervous systems flowing how it should be It's probably pretty hard for me to feel gratitude and be attacked by a bear at the same time right Like that's kind of a challenging thing but um yeah I think that's really well put

Mathias 46:04

I've had the similar a similar experience I saw one time maybe a reel or something like that where we get all of our information these days that uh it was uh it's impossible to feel gratitude and be stressed at the same time Like it's I don't know if it's scientific at all but apparently it's like two different parts of your brain that can't be activated at the same time Um I'm sure that has something to do with like you're saying the nervous system and and all that And so I heard that I was like oh my goodness cheat code Like when I get stressed let me just go to some gratitude and then it's impossible to be stressed And I tried that um I actually had like maybe four or five chances in a row to serve at the end of matches Like in pretty big games and I kept going there every time to the gratitude I would expand my field of vision look around at the crowd like realize where I am whether that's like international championship or I'm playing professionally in France and like I've seen these people on TV before and like now I'm here And then it was just the easiest thing in the world to go hit my serve um, from that point. And I, I think like. Yeah, I think you had a similar experience there when you're kind of just like riding below the pressure almost because you're just happy to be there.

TJ 47:24

Yeah, I love it.

Mathias 47:26

Uh, Ook, rapid fire questions?

Oog 47:31

Okay, um, I have five questions and a one bonus.

TJ 47:35

for this or something? Like how rapid fire are we talking?

Oog 47:37

No, you can take your time. I was gonna say put your thinking cap on but, um, Okay, we're gonna start off slow, and then the last, the bonus question is a little bit more in depth, and it's just a couple, couple questions. Um, okay, if you were a fruit, what kind of fruit would you be, and why? Okay,

TJ 47:57

uh What a terrible question! No,

Oog 48:04

no, no,

TJ 48:05

no. Is this rapid? Like, I gotta just give My first answer, I was gonna say apple. Cause I'm like, okay, they're everywhere. I feel like it's kind of a Canadian thing. We have apples here. It's like, you always feel good after you have an apple. But then I was like, Ooh, they do rot pretty quickly. And you know, there's these side effects too. It's a lot of sugar in that. Not very tropical. Um. I guess I'll just lean into other, because otherwise I'm going to have to do a deep dive on really thinking about this. You know,

Oog 48:31

I, I love that because A. K. A.

TJ 48:33

the most basic fruit you could pick is what I picked, sir. The

Oog 48:36

reason I asked is just because I figure like you're a very articulate and well spoken individual, and I thought that you were going to have some, like, I am a guava because this, this, and this, but I was wrong. So

TJ 48:50

again, we go back to those moments that we regret regret. It's definitely that I didn't say Bob. I guess that's fine. No, no,

Oog 48:56

that's fine. I just wanted to see what that would uh would bring about but um What was your least favorite subject in school?

TJ 49:05

Uh, the one I was doing the worst at.

Oog 49:08

Which was?

TJ 49:10

It would change.

Oog 49:11

Just at the time? Okay. Alright. Um, if you could bypass all education and just be thrown into a profession with all the right knowledge and know how, what profession would you choose?

TJ 49:26

Oh, that's good. So, sorry, you're saying that like I have all the knowledge, I could just get this downloaded?

Oog 49:30

Yeah, you just Just plug yourself in and you're good to be a doctor or whatever. That's

TJ 49:36

good. Um, I mean inherently I would probably say a psychologist to some degree just because I'm super passionate about it and I enjoy that side of life Outside of that if it was just kind of like not having to do with with my actual life I think like maybe an architect would be super cool and you could engineer some crazy buildings and do some crazy things

Oog 49:59

Yeah, that's cool. Um. That's a better question, Oog. Thanks, dude. I told you they were gonna start off They were gonna start off soft, and then they're gonna get more in depth now My next question is kind of a little bit back to soft, but if you had to pick one pair of shoes To wear for the rest of your life, what would they be?

TJ 50:21

This is actually a very good one. That's a great question.

Oog 50:24

Thank you.

TJ 50:26

And it's like, I go skiing, I gotta wear them. I go to the beach, I gotta wear them. So versatility is important.

Oog 50:32

Yeah, yeah. You gotta wear them to the mountain, but you also gotta wear them to the beach, and to the stampede, and to the whatever.

TJ 50:40

Well, cause right off the bat, I was gonna say Jordan 11s. But then I was like, that's way too flashy for just like everyday life. Like, I'm like, I don't want to be that guy. Um, I mean, I have Blundstones and I wear them in many different ways. And that's kind of embarrassing to say that. I, again, but, um, I mean, they're versatile being in Canada. I'll probably go with that. Just like a, like a classic slip on boot, probably be. Nice. Yeah, what about like

Mathias 51:10

when you're coaching you're wearing your blundstones and shorts to the gym?

TJ 51:13

You know, it's funny though, it gives me a little bit extra height So my short man syndrome doesn't come up so much and then and then you just wear like Lululemon pants or something over top. Yeah, there you

Oog 51:28

go. There you go. Mm hmm. Great call. Okay, if you had let's say 5, 000 of just free tax free money and you had to make a frivolous purchase What would it be, like, tomorrow?

TJ 51:46

Tomorrow? 5, 000 bucks? I'd probably spend it on golf clubs. Ooh, good answer.

Oog 51:57

What, uh, what kind?

TJ 52:00

Well, so, I've got some, I've got the PXG like 211 irons, and they're a little bit heavy in the face for me. Like I want more of a, not a blade. I don't want to sound like that guy, but some a little bit more workable. So probably, you know, like, uh, the guy that

Oog 52:15

wears Jordan 11s.

TJ 52:17

Yeah. It sounds too much like that guy. So I saved myself and said, you know, I'm not going to say that company more, but, um, yeah, probably some different variety of probably a new driver and some irons. I also say that, but I like. I get new golf clubs way too often. Like it'd be terrible. But you said 5, 000 bucks.

Oog 52:38

That's a great, a great, great purchase. Um, okay. This last one might be a little bit more like we can kind of tie it back into the rest of the show, but I just want to touch on your time up in the Arctic. Um, and just like I know, for me, like, I like to learn as much as I can from people that live their life differently than me. and I just want to know like what did you take from your experience in the Arctic? Or what can you share from your experience in the Arctic you kind of use to your advantage in day to day life

TJ 53:15

now? Yeah, amazing question. And also, yeah, I think you're right a pretty big question. Um, I mean the the time up there has Again, similar to a lot of things that have that have happened in all of our lives. Right. It's defined a lot of how I want to show up. Um, and I'll give you, I'll give you that, like, a quick start of how it, how it all kind of came to be anyway, was I was actually on a flight from Calgary to Kelowna. And I was going out to visit some family and the guy beside me was like, Hey, why do you look familiar? Like, what's your, and I was like, volleyball, maybe. It's like, Oh yeah. And then we started chatting and he had just worked for this program, uh, that was up in Nunavik. And, uh, he knew that I was injured. We were talking about the injury and stuff like that. And. He was like, Oh, I should get you in contact with the guy that runs it and see if you'd want to go up there. And I'm like, yeah, sure. Great. Like, super cool. Uh, and I go back and I was talking to my girlfriend and I was like, yeah, we got this really cool opportunity to go to the Arctic. And I was like, but I see my doctor literally every other day, like no chance I go to the Arctic. Like, that's wild. Um, and so I was very much like, I don't, I don't know if that's the right fit for me. That seems like a lot, but she was very much. Yeah, but when are you going to get an opportunity like that? What an unbelievable opportunity. She's like, what if I came with you? Like, okay, that would probably feel a little bit better. And so I talked to the director of the program and you know, she played it, she played university volleyball and all this stuff. And we ended up going up there. And the first time we went up there, we went up for 21 days and we went to three different communities and it's a seven days each and. You know, a lot of it went horribly wrong. Like I'm going up there being like, they've got to be perfect practice plans and I gotta be, you know, there's the whole thing that's Olympians coming up, whatever. And, you know, I'd also wasn't very experienced in running programs to begin with. So of course I don't have that, but also it's a very unique, um, situation that everybody's in. And so probably one of the biggest takeaways is, is that element of flexibility and presence and gratitude and all that sort of stuff where I go up. And if you run a practice that bombs. I promise you that, again, think of any terrible practice you've had, we can look back and laugh at that. We can look back and have a totally different perspective than in the moment. So a lot of times when a lot of that initial experience just didn't go again, the way that I wanted it to where I was holding on to something that, you know, holds really no value. Me being there, us showing up, us opening the gym, the safe being, or the space being safe. is the value, not that I ran the perfect practice kind of thing. So that was kind of how it got started. And then, you know, I was going up periodically while I was training, you know, down here. And then I'd go up there and then even while I was training, uh, you know, for Tokyo and, and there was some pushback on that too, you know, like obviously to go to the Olympics, it's pretty high performance, pretty all consuming. And I'm, you know, going and taking three weeks to go up to the Arctic and stuff like that. And so there's a lot of that. I mean, that's more in the how it impacted my life, my experience. I think things that I. Learned or that I take with me was I don't know. I talk about this with a bunch of the guys You know from those Rio days and stuff where when you're a professional volleyball player You could make it's a pretty easy argument to say we're not the most resourceful humans in the world, right? Like oh I can set a overloaded offense really well That doesn't really save your life from a lot of situations and you know We used to joke about stuff like that. And when you're in the north, it's It's the opposite. It's there's, you have to do that. So I remember it was our, like, after the Tokyo Olympics, we moved up there. And then our second day, the school was lit on fire. I was, I was running a practice and, um, there was a big fire at the school. It was just us. It's like us, our 14 kids or whatever. And actually, one of the kids was like, do you smell that? Like, it smells like smoke or something. And we're kind of like, yeah, that's fine. And then this green gas comes like flying in through the door outside. Like, it literally looked like, you know, the Green Goblin is a terrible reference, but you know, the Green Goblin, where you'd like, have those. bombs or whatever and the green smoke. We're like, what is that? And then the whole door is on fire. We didn't know at the time, but the whole side of the gym is on fire. And it was this moment where obviously I freak out. We're in charge of these kids. I'm like screaming at everybody to get out. Um, and they get out, and it's me and two boys that would have been 14 and 15 at the time, or something like that. And we're just stopped just outside the gym, and they look at me and they're like, Shouldn't we try to put it out? Like, isn't that our And I'm like, wow, that's embarrassing as the adult, I didn't even think I'm thinking like, get everyone to safety, get away! The magical Calgary police department will come, you know, obviously not the same experience there. Like don't get me wrong. They still have incredible fire departments and stuff like that, but it's using water from the water plant. It's not, it's, it's much, much more challenging to, to resolve problems like that. And everybody is capable of resolving problems like that. Right. This, this 14 and 50 year old, that's the first thing that comes to their mind. So we run and we grab all the extinguishers we can, and we go to the door and we're trying to do stuff. And again, we didn't really realize that the whole side of the building was on fire. Um, but yeah, it was just like this, this resourcefulness of, okay, something needs to be done. Let's try to do it. Or, you know, there's a lot of moments where, you know, the infrastructure in Nunavik is especially, uh, you know, around water is quite difficult. Like we would, you know, Probably once a month run at a water in our house, uh, and that was me and one other person. So imagine like, you know, large families, uh, and so there's moments where it's, you know, minus 40 outside and we, I see the water truck and I'll throw on my Jordan 11s and run out after this water truck to try and. You know, Hey, we need water. Cause we're or whatever. Um, yeah. And the sense of community, the sense of, um, connection to everything around you, whether it be like solving problems or not, like I still, one of the coolest experiences we were in one community, not the one we lived in, but another one. And, and the caribou migration was going through. And something that somebody said was, yeah, when they go through like try not to look at them, don't like look at them too much because we want them to keep coming through. Like we're not gawking, like again, classic white guy going in. We're just like, Whoa, careful. Right. That's, you know, it's more like, no, this is a part of the experience here. Um, and we want them to keep coming through obviously for hunting and variety of reasons. So there, I mean, there's just so many things that going from, you know, Yeah, playing overseas and really my only focus on siding out points and doing my weights to, uh, very different reality. There's a lot of things I take with me, and a lot of it is not even just like a specific thing. Oh, now I can tie this fish knot. It's, oh, if something comes up, I can probably handle it. You know, or like I can probably try it. And then when I failed, that's okay. And I'll just keep seeing if it'll work out. Right. Which I didn't have before, because I think pretty common is a high performer. I'm like, Oh, everything has to be the standard of my volleyball career. Everything has to be world class. Everything has to be, but of course not everything is going to be. Right? Like that's the reality. And so, yeah, I mean, just sort of that resourcefulness and tapping into connecting with the community and even little things like blizzards are coming. Okay. I got a stockpile. Get ready for it. Like, okay. Got it. Like so many different things that were completely different than my reality as a professional athlete are really impacted me. So great question. I think there's, you know, there's a lot of stuff that we could continue to unpack there, but

Jesse 1:01:10

I think it's incredible how quickly these podcast episodes. Turn from volleyball to real tangible life ideas and thoughts and, and stuff like that. And I think it's really, really hard, especially as a young athlete to really appreciate things around them. If their one only goal is to make that team and then make this team and, and it's really hard. Um, what can you, what would you say to someone who it's very clear that they're. Their sights are only on athletic successes.

TJ 1:01:59

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I kind of use the language around volleyball and sport in general, as I'm like, it is a vehicle for life, like in life, you're going to fail in life, you need to rely on other people. Sometimes in life, there's going to be a hierarchy and like, like there's. There's so many things that sport gives us, you know, even just the fact that in a match, you're going to be pumped with adrenaline and then cortisol, and then you're going to feel amazing. Then you're going to feel terrible. Like that is, you know, a master class in sort of life over a long period of time, right? Like it, that's, that's something, you know, since I've retired, you don't really have that in the same way in like normal life, right? So I think have your tunnel vision on and all that sort of stuff, but learn the lessons that you're learning along the way, right? Like when you lose and it feels bad and you want to reflect on why it feels bad. Actually reflect on it, try to figure out, Oh, why does that feel so bad? What does that attach? And I had to do a lot again, when I was injured and had to lie on the floor for three months or whatever it was, I had to have a lot of those conversations with myself, um, because you'll learn, you'll learn a lot. And I think, I think sport is an extremely beautiful opportunity to learn those things that we don't get in a lot of other ways. Like I didn't, I didn't grow up playing instruments. I didn't, um, you know, do a bunch of different things, but I played every sport you could think of. And I think I know. Uh, you know, learn so much about myself and connecting to my body, even going back to meditation. I mean, me going and shooting free throws or me going and, you know, going to the driving range is very much a meditative experience where, so again, I think when you have your blinders off or up, I don't know if I would say something like, Hey, you know, stop and smell the roses and look around a little bit because clearly there's something pulling you towards that. That's not a bad thing, but try to evaluate, why, why is that pulling you? What is the pull? Like, again, for me, I think a lot of it early in my career was very much a desperation, a chip on my shoulder, uh, just cause you're small and you're from a town, whatever, it was like, I have to prove something. Okay, is that, is that what I want all my energy of my life to go into? Maybe. But at least I should make that choice, right? As opposed to just being kind of caught up in it. Um, you know, I do think there's also just a classic case of athletes when they start to gain outside perspective or, you know, have other, other values, other things like that. We, we learn and we grow so much differently. I mean, it was this phenomenon that I noticed a lot where when guys would have kids overseas, they would play better. And I was always like, this makes no sense. They're not sleeping at all. And they're like, you know, everything's totally shifted yet. They were present. They are all these different things that sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in, in different things. So yeah, I think I would just more, you know, use, use volleyball or use sport as, as your vehicle to understand yourself, but that also means doing some kind of uncomfortable work. It doesn't just mean, okay, just keep pursuing the thing, right? Why do you want that? It's a, it's a classic case of, okay, you go, you make the Olympics. The day after the Olympics, you're like, okay, that was cool. Now, next time let's go try to win them or whatever. And I assume everybody that's won a gold medal afterwards is like, Oh, I'm not fulfilled now as a human. I haven't solved, you know, world hunger or whatever, right? Like, the reality is there's still so much going on in life. So we want to understand why we want, want those things, right? So for me, if somebody has blinders up, it's more, all right, I wonder why.

Jesse 1:05:44

Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting point, especially hearing you talk about that thinking back to how many opportunities were presented to me simply through sport or through the people in the sport. And like the easy one, the first one that comes to my mind is my best friend from grade five to grade 10, uh, had never left Calgary, never been on a plane. And I had been to nationals. I had been with like team Alberta. We traveled to Edmonton every other weekend. And it was just this, I was like, wow. I remember I was, I don't know, I was 14 being like, wow, I'm so lucky. Like, this is incredible. And I think you're, you're bang on with that. It's cool.

Mathias 1:06:27

Another one for me there, Jess, was like just how many free meals we get. It's insane. Like the average person, I don't know how many free meals a month they get. Maybe like one. But like when you're on the road with the national teams, like every single meal is free. It's, it's, it's crazy.

Jesse 1:06:48

Yeah, and I think I just go back to the gratitude thing that we were talking about. There's so many opportunities. And so, or so many opportunities to be grateful and to practice gratitude, even the smallest things that now seem so normal, but they're, they're not like you're not working at Ellis and getting free room and board. And, you know, like,

Oog 1:07:13

I think one of the things, I think TSC, you said this to me one, one day, but I was trying to build my resume and I didn't have a whole lot of like work experience. And you said that like the. The intangible experiences that we get from playing sport, like sport itself is not something to put on your resume. I'm a volleyball player, but it's like the intangibles that you get, like, you know how to work in a team, you know how to like solve conflict, you know how to like, all that is really relevant in everything outside of outside of volleyball. And I think like many people don't work in teams. Until they hit like a going into the workplace age, or even when they do, like it might, you might not be in a team. And I think that, yeah, like all those intangibles are just incredible that we don't really. Notice until we apply them, I guess.

Mathias 1:08:14

Absolutely. Um, I do actually want to get a little bit technical for just like five minutes here because you are one of the best setters we've ever had and you've played all the biggest leagues in the world. You've gone to the Olympics multiple times as our starting setter. So I feel like it'd be a waste if we didn't ask you some. specific setting questions. So, which is cool now too, because you're doing a lot of coaching. So I feel like that often leads athletes to like really reflect on what they've done and how to transfer that knowledge to the next, the next generation. So I guess to start off, what are, do you have a few technical keys that you think? Um, should be standard across most setters.

TJ 1:08:59

Yeah, I think, you know, when I, it's such a great point, like when I first started doing this, and, and actually it was interesting, that really was in the north, like, you know, this psychosocial program was very much in the north that, um, we're, we're coaching a lot of volleyball, and it's such a good point, because I'm like, oh yeah, I don't know why I do that, or what, what am I trying to say about my hands, or what, like, Oh, yeah, good point. And I think so much I've, I've learned over the last several years from athletes, right? And like their interpretation of it or their ability to, you know, articulate things. Uh, when I look at sort of the keys, I think one thing is, is that we are all slightly different and that's not bad. So we want to amplify what we're capable of doing. Um, but all that falls under the lens of, but every good setter is efficient at generating force. Right. So every setter at the highest levels can understand their momentum, right? So if I can get there and I can be, I'm not falling all over the place, or if I'm jumping straight up and down, that's going to be an advantage. But even if I am falling, like very Kobe Bryant esque, I still want to understand how that momentum works. So a lot of times, something as simple, like if I look at a really common pattern, is that a lot of athletes that are, let's say like under the age of 15, are going to go up under their toes every time they set. Right. Just a pattern that I've noticed. I think a lot of it is because the ball is up there. We're a little bit anxious. We maybe don't have the technical expertise that I get closer to the ball. And then inherently I'm on my toes and they're more off balance. Right. And I kind of always joke like, you know, when I remember watching this one documentary and I forget which quarterback it was, but they were standing on one of those exercise balls. And like running guys were running routes and like throwing standing on one of those exercise balls. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's incredible. And the more I thought about it, I was like, Oh, I guess they're holding on to it. Where if you were to stand on an exercise ball and try to set It would be impossible. It would be so, so, so hard, right? Just the minor movements that you make your upper body be really challenging, not to double the ball. We're always up on our toes are always falling. It's kind of like we're standing on that exercise ball, right? That becomes quite challenging. So sort of that stability, understanding momentum. Um, I think a lot of talking about footwork. Um, I want to remind athletes or I do remind athletes that You know, footwork is a tool so that you can be more stable, so that you can generate the force you want, so that you can distribute the force that you want, where you want it to go. There are different ways to do that, right? There's, there's several different styles of footwork. Um, you know, it's funny, like, myself, I never went left right to set, where, I don't know, 90 percent of American, that's a random number, but 90 percent of American, especially on the women's side, go left right. And it's like taboo to not do that. And I've always thought, yeah, but if we look at the top 10 setters in the world, none of them do that. So it's a weird thing to me that we should do it. Now, there's an intention behind it, right? A lot of reasons when we go right left, that left foot doesn't plant hard enough. So we do drift, or our momentum does get the best of us. So that left right forces us to stop our momentum and be able to deliver force how we want to but that's a tool That's not the law because again, we can go watch, you know, DiCecco and Tenuti and whatever and they're not doing that So obviously that's not what makes a good setter and I remember getting kind of confused by that like I I was taught multiple footworks when I was younger multiple types of footwork when I was younger and I thought oh am I just not good and they're trying to change things or I don't understand this or I don't whatever where Again, the reality that's not, that's not true, but we do want to be efficient. So again, if you're always falling all over the place, you're not stable. You're not whatever. Again, it's just hard. You could take any center in the world and that would be hard for them. Uh, the next thing that, you know, a pretty core thing that I talk about is so many of us are going to go with our hands to the ball first. Right. I do. I have this kind of like jokey experiment where I'm like, you know, as an athlete, what body part goes to the ball first and you know, then I'll throw a ball to somebody and they'll catch it. I'm like, yeah, obviously your hands go to the ball. Like that's normal. You set with your hands. You're going to want to do that. But if you do that, you're obviously going to start leaning. It's actually harder to gather your momentum for a variety of reasons. Um, that's a big problem. So everyone says, get your feet to the ball. And I remember being younger and being like, maybe taking it too literally, but I would like throw my feet at the ball and get my hands there, but I'd be like in this shape. Right? My hips would be way back there. Right? So I was always kind of leaning forward into it. So the big thing I talk about is get your hips to the ball, more than your feet. Again, watch any really good setter who's trying to create, like again, if we're trying to be neutral, I can't be like this. That's not neutral. It's not the same this way that way. If I have my hips with me, it allows me to present more neutrally and then I can go and do what I want from there. Right? So I think a lot of times I, I express your hips. And the funny thing is too, is if I like throw my hips over there, my feet will come with me. Like, I'm not going to fall over, right? Like you're, it's naturally going to happen. So a lot of the stuff that I, that I talk about is more, you know, when we look at any athlete or a lot of athletes that are, yeah, sort of in that like 15, 16 and under and younger ages. is we just gotta get really comfortable with the ground. Like I talk a lot about like having friction with the ground, pushing into the ground, kind of developing a relationship there. Then when you want to start jump setting, when you're older, that still is the place to start, right? You still need to go and feel the ground in that way to jump. And then from there, you know, there's, there's all sorts of nuance with this within. Hand positioning. Um, you know, I talk a lot about elbows, uh, just especially because in the, uh, in America, it's elbows are naturally quite wide, uh, not reflect on that quite a bit. I don't know if it's beach culture or, you know, if there were centers back in the day that were quite strong in that, but it's a very wide. It's normal that we go wide with our elbows again. If you're walking across a tight rope, what would you do with your hands? You'd put your hands out here, right? You're trying to balance. So when you're trying to get to a ball and you're trying to balance, you're naturally, your deltoids are gonna kind of, uh, flex first to try and help you stabilize that. The second thing is, a lot of us when we learn a set, we're not really using our thumbs. They're not very engaged. Where if I have the ball here and I just drop the ball, naturally my thumb contacts the ball more. So that kind of allows me to engage my thumbs more. Again, a lot of that we're doing unconsciously. We're actually compensating in a way. By doing those different things and that compensation removes us from being efficient, right? So a lot of what I try to do is how can we become more efficient? That's going to look different for you, Jesse. It does for me. Like I don't have a 7'2 wingspan, right? So that's normal that it's going to be a little bit different and that it should be. But at the same time, you know, there's all these different patterns, uh, that make it difficult. And I think that's more of what I try to do is I try to remove those barriers. Then I do say you have to do it like this, right? A lot of the things that I do. are going to be tools that I'm more than happy to share with you. But if we can find another tool that works better, like right, left footwork, left, right footwork, pivoting this, that there's so many variations that you can do. And a lot of questions that I get are very, is this right or this right? And obviously I'm like, well, they both are, or neither of them are. That depends, right? Like it's, it's obviously nuanced in that way, but those are sort of like, you know, the fundamentals, obviously you got to get comfortable with the ground. Gotta get your hips there, want good posture, you know, all those kind of things.

Mathias 1:16:39

Really cool. I like the, uh, I think it was you that I saw on one Instagram post talking about how setting is just physics. Is that, was that your line?

TJ 1:16:52

Yeah, I mean, I've talked a lot about actually with Lucas Camp a little bit and I've referenced it a lot. I mean, it's also funny because I remember when coaches to me would be like, you know, you jump and you float around all the time and they're like, you're not going to be consistent. You can't do that. And again, I was stubborn and had a chip on my shoulder and stuff. And I would do like literally Kobe Bryant fadeaway setting. And I hit like 10 in a row on the target. And I'd be like, what do you mean? That's not a humble brag. That's like embarrassing to share that story. Instead, what's funny is you become, you're not deceptive at all. If I'm flying all over there, it's so obvious where I'm going. Right. So this is another funny thing. I think that especially even in there's, there's no doubt a, an importance to it, but I think we've swung too far in the direction of, um, we just need to put a pitiful balls or it just needs to be like, whatever we need to understand what we're trying to do. Right. And why we're trying to do it. And I think that also gamifies a little bit where setting should be fun. Like a lot of centers that I come across, it's just like, don't screw up. Don't screw up. Don't screw up. Oh, that had like half a rotation of spin. That sucks. And then again, we go and we watch DiCecco and Four Sets in a Row have a ton of spin on it, but he's amazing and an artist. Like, that's not what's wrong there. Um, but yeah, I remember talking to Lucas about it and I've referenced it a lot as a way to try and, you know, shift. What we're trying to do a little bit, right? Like, yes, the footwork that you really like or the hand position that you like or the whatever and I'm speaking more to coaches like, yes, that you like is good, but there's a utility for those. Those are tools. That's not the law, right? And I think in setting and sort of the, yeah, I just feel like too much in setting. We're just stuck on. Nope. You have to do it like this and we don't know why and we're not able to articulate the fact that. It is something like, oh, well, if you're falling every time, there's more variables at play. Sometimes you fall a little bit, sometimes you fall a lot, sometimes you fall That makes, you're actually working on four different sets to the outside. Right. That's kind of the reality. I know I just went off on that. No, no,

Jesse 1:18:57

no, that's cool. A true architect.

TJ 1:19:01

That's right.

Mathias 1:19:03

Um, okay. Last question on setting. And then, and then we could probably move to the end here. I'm just, I'm curious about what you were talking about there with, um, instilling a little bit more creativity. If it works, it works kind of mentality into younger athletes when do we start introducing the decision making patterns and maybe taking a peek at blockers? And how do you think about introducing the tactical side of the game to those athletes?

TJ 1:19:34

Yeah, yeah, I think there's kind of a couple questions in there. I think one, like the technical stuff is going to take time. Right? Like you need repetitions. You need so many repetitions to, you know, connect some patterns and synapses in your brain so that you can go out and do it without thinking about it. Like that takes time. I've always been, you know, kind of a believer is while you're getting those rips and you're doing that, you should still be making decisions, right? It's not one or the other, right? So like, if you're working on getting your feet to the ball, you still want to think, okay, when I get my feet to the ball, who am I setting? Right? Like, I, I think there's, again, volleyball is so technical and there's so much weight on the setter because we contacted the ball so much that if the setters technique is not up to a certain grade, the team will suffer, right? So of course, we're always going to keep working on that. And even when, you know, when I think about creativity, it's more intention that I want where, yes, I still don't want you to take the ball and drop it down here and be creative. It's I want you to learn how to be creative with the technique that is more efficient, right? So, yeah, there's different ways to do things, but I don't mean, oh, you can drop the ball or you can fall or you can set on your way down or you can finish low or whatever it is. Those are things that are making less efficient, which are going to have consequences, right? Like, we want to find how can we become as efficient as possible. Some people might have wider elbows than I did. Some people like Tenuti has much narrower elbows than I did. I'm not going to try and change how he sets the ball. Right. It's still efficient. So that's kind of like one part of it, but I do think with tactics, like a big, you know, a big thing is, is I look back on, yeah, like my 18U year, even a little bit into university, like my tactics were very, very, very minimal. Like I wasn't really layering any sort of offense. I'm thinking I like to set middle, right. And like, maybe I set it right. Like it wasn't so sophisticated. So I really encourage athletes from a younger age, again, just to have some intention. Because I also think that tactics, especially in really, really high level volleyball is, I mean, very, very difficult to evaluate over time. And like, if I'm playing in world championships and it's the fourth game of the tournament, you know, everybody's watched the first three games. They also have watched my pro games. They know what I've done the last two years. So I need to overlap my decision making based on what they know and how I want to exploit matchups and advantages and, you know, leverage disadvantages accordingly. That's very hard to map over time. You could watch a game you could watch. Like, again, that's why I have a little bit of contention with when people watch one set or like one point and say, Oh, that was a bad decision. Over time, it's so hard to say, okay, maybe it was a bad decision because they set somebody and there was two blocks and the guy wasn't even there and the ball like, yeah, okay. But in the scope of decision making in running an offense, it's very difficult to actually navigate what a good decision is or not. For instance, I remember there's times where I'd set middle and the other middle commits and we get blocked. And I've had coaches that have said, yeah, but now you know that we're doing your middle. Maybe that's going to win you the game in the long run. Maybe that middle getting that block feels so good about it that you can pull them next time. Maybe you get like, there's so many layers to making decisions that when working with younger athletes, I'm more make any decision, but have an intention behind it, right? We got to start building the library of, uh, again, you go and you set middle this one time and your middle isn't score. As a coach, I might sit there and go, Oh, that was a bad decision because we lost the game on that. And winning this game is really important to me, but that setter in the scope of their career might've learned more from that error or more from that not working that maybe it wasn't a bad decision. You know, I just think it's more nuanced than. Good, bad, and it's much harder to track to track than I think we realize for sure there's tendencies. You know, you might have a setter that every time they do this, they respond this way. The coach doesn't like that, or it's really inefficient or whatever, and we're trying to break that habit, but they keep doing it again. For me, that's not a tactical thing. There's something else going on, right? If you're stuck in a tendency again, it's nervous system dysregulation, you're panicked and you have no control. It's not because tactics are, I went and I decided to do that. If you have a tendency, it's not a decision, right? So it's not actually like under the same umbrella. Um, but yeah, for a lot of times I'm just more have any sort of decision. I mean, obviously think through it. Oh, I've got my six, four outside on a five, five blocker. I like that matchup. Maybe that means you use it. Maybe that means you don't use it because you save it for later. Maybe that means you should run the middle because they're so worried about like, again, there's nuances within that, but just to make some decision, cause I, I, I feel lucky because my first few years of the national team, um, Glenn did not trust me at all. Like I think after every single contact I made, it was like classic stern Glenn. Like, why did you do that? And the first 100 times, I'm like, well, but then I got to the point that I could tell him every reason the last five points, the next five points, I could tell him, you know, what this country system of blocking is. And so that's layered over the fact that then all of a sudden, you know, again, like we've talked about layering an offense, it got so complicated that he just stopped asking me, he was just like, okay, nevermind. Like now just taking up all the time and the time out. Um, but to the same degree of, yeah. Okay, why did you do that? That's all that matters. It's also okay to say, Oh, I don't know. That's important. Again, that goes back to the whole recognize, accept, reconnect. If you say, uh, because, uh, the small blocker when it wasn't, you're not learning anything. If you set randomly, that's okay. Again, a lot of younger athletes, a lot of their sets are going to be Muscle memory, random, you know, they just move that way. It feels the best. That's okay. We just want to see how many can, can we start kind of incepting ourselves a little bit and having more intention more and more and more. And then once we do, and we, you know, play to 25 points and almost every set we have intention behind it. Then we get to start evaluating. Was it useful? Was it not? If we start kind of point by point, like acutely, we can evaluate. I set the middle, they commit block, they got the block. Maybe that wasn't the right choice. Then we can start evaluating. Okay, what could I have done differently? Then we can get to how do I layer all that on top of each other, right? And how do I start playing with that? But I think that doesn't have to happen when you're 23. I have a lot of athletes that I work with that are not, that are club players that can walk through stuff. Like that with me and can tell me the decisions are making kind of go through those different things and I'm more of I also going and making a good set feels awesome, but it feels so much better going making a good set on purpose because of X, Y, Z and all those things unraveling how you wanted to and that guy goes and gets a kill and you know, he didn't just get a kill because it was a good set, but because the middle wasn't there and it was a small blocker, the line defenders late and you push it aside and the hit line. Yeah. Whatever, I think that's worth way more points than that one point.

Mathias 1:26:56

Fantastic. I love that starting point too of just make any decision. Because it took me a while to even get there. Similar to you, like, probably until, even my first year of university, I think, was the first time I actually started deciding why I was going to make a certain set. And I think it's cool that you say it can be any decision. Like, I set this guy because he's my best friend. Then you're like, okay, great. When you have a reason, then you can evaluate. your reasoning And then we go, okay, maybe that's not the best reason to set that guy. What's a better reason that we can find there? And, um, yeah, you can, like, like you said, you kind of develop your own, uh, philosophy almost. Because I don't think you can just A big problem for me when I started playing in university was Benjo had thought about this stuff so in depth. He had pretty much a flawless system, and I couldn't execute on that system because it wasn't mine. And it was only when I took the information and his reasoning and then worked through it to make it my own that I could actually execute in the moment. Um, instead of like, what does Ben want me to set here? It's what do I want to set here? And then Hopefully they align with each other. There's some crossover on, on the execution at the end of the day. Dude,

TJ 1:28:22

I could talk about this for eternity. Um, but no, I, yeah, to go back to the whole idea, I think for, for younger athletes also to have a little bit of grace, if you're recognizing that, Oh, a lot of my sets are random, right? Like I just said that I'm not really thinking about that stuff until I'm in university. You just said that we're both pretty high level setters. So it's normal that if you're 16, you club and you're like, Oh my gosh, I'm not really thinking tactically. That's normal. That's okay. I would say use, use time to your advantage, you know, like a lot of. before the play happens, have some simple feedback. And again, so like in this setter's journal, I have a little way that you can make your own game plan. Kind of think about things like, what are your advantages? What are your disadvantages? What's your favorite set? What's your least favorite set? Like little things like that, where then you could start to understand what, how you can kind of express yourself out there. But before the play happens, think, okay, if it's a good pass this is what I want to do. If it's a bad pass this is what I want to do. And then go play the point. Maybe you still make some crazy decision because of some tendency or whatever. But then exactly like you said, now you have something to evaluate. Oh, I said that I should set my left side because of that matchup, but the pass pushed me forward and I still set back. Why did I do that? Is that what I want to do? Or is this a tendency that I have? That maybe I want to, you know, evaluate and become a little bit more conscious as I make that move, right? 100%. And then, I mean, it's, it's like a classic case with quarterbacks and, um, you know, obviously football coaches. It's, there has to be a level of freedom for Setters like it's so clear to me that just telling a setter every set that they should make maybe that wins you 14 new provincials Is that what matters? I don't know, right? Obviously Winning and participating and pursuing the win and all that stuff is super important Uh, but like we were talking about the very beginning, the, the scope, the continuum of our careers so long, right, And I think tactics is a setter is maybe our most important job, right? Once we've checked off the box. I mean, I always, I always joke, it's similar to a bunch of different skills, but let's say. Art or being a painter. Okay, you got to learn what the brushstroke is. You got to learn the different perspectives. You got to learn whatever, but you don't do that just to go to your desk and do that brushstroke over and over again. You do that to create something, right? So we're working on our technique so that we can go implement our tactics to create something. Right. And I think it's just that gets lost sometimes.

Mathias 1:30:50

Awesome. That was incredible. That's probably a good place, uh, to end this thing. Thanks for coming on TJ. That was unreal. Uh, it's cool hearing, hearing how you think of all this stuff and, uh, listeners go check out TJ on Instagram. Is that the best place to find you?

TJ 1:31:08

Yeah, probably. I mean, it's everywhere. We got Elite Resilience.

Mathias 1:31:10

Find him everywhere. Check out Elite Resilience. Join the movement.

TJ 1:31:16

That's right. It's a revolution, guys. I, I, I do believe though that, you know, There's so much understanding of ourselves that can happen that can make the game so much fun. Like again think of the times when you're just with your buddies and you're having fun We can recreate that in club volleyball, you know club volleyball doesn't have to be Um, you know what? It's kind of evolving into

Mathias 1:31:40

yeah, really cool. already I think that wraps up episode number 33 of the pit to pro podcast. Thanks everyone for listening and signing off

1:31:53

Thanks everyone for listening to the Pit to Pro podcast. Give us a follow on Instagram and submit your questions to the link in our bio. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone you think will like it and subscribe to our show on Spotify and Apple podcasts.