The Pit to Pro Podcast

Episode #30 - Past, Present, and Future with Nick Hoag

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In this episode we discuss Nick’s extensive career and what he has learned along the way. We talk about serving - one of Nick’s specialties - how to separate your identity from your sport, and how to be a leader without being a boss. We talk about why extra reps aren't always a good idea, the best way to learn new skills, and he shares some advice to those struggling with mental health.

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Pit to Pro podcast. In this episode, we're joined by Nick Hogue. Nick is a three time Olympian, has played in many of the best professional leagues in the world, and has been the captain of our Canadian national team for the last three summers. Expect to learn how to separate your identity from your sport, how to be a leader without being a boss, why extra reps aren't always a good idea, the best way to learn new skills, advice to those struggling with mental health, and what one of the best servers in the world thinks about when he's behind the line.

Mathias

Before we get started, I'd like to introduce our sponsor for today's episode.

Jesse

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Mathias

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Jesse

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Mathias

once you're inside the app, you can upload a video of your arm swing, then you'll get personalized feedback direct from Nick Delbianco. He'll give you some tips on how your arm swing is looking, Then you get some on court exercises to lock in the new patterns and even a specific weight room program to help you spike harder and play pain free.

Jesse

If you're not sold yet and you just want to test it out, all you gotta do is follow the link in the description of this episode or our Instagram bio and sign up for the 7 day free trial. Then use code ARMSWING50 at checkout and get 50 percent off the first month after the trial.

But now ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Nick Hoag. Hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Mathias

What's up everyone? Welcome back to the show. Today we've got Nick Hogue on with us. Nick, thanks for being on. Thanks for having me. Where are you joining us from?

Nick

I am currently in Doha, Qatar, which is where I'm playing professionally currently. And, uh, yeah, happy to be with you guys. It's been a long time. So we chatted. So

Jesse

that has, well, we're pumped to have you on. I want to kick this thing off by telling a little story and then, um, getting your opinion on it. And, uh, this was from my first summer that I spent a couple of weeks with the A team when Ben was the coach and it was the first game of VNL. I forget who we were playing. Um, and you played really poorly and those are your words, not mine. And I remember we had a team meeting afterwards and you said, that was one of the worst games I've played that I can remember, I'm not upset because it doesn't affect who I am, who I am outside of volleyball. It doesn't affect my identity. And I still think about that, like little speech monthly, at least. And then we were roommates that, uh, Ottawa, VNL. And I remember I asked you about it again, back in the room. I was like, how did you get to that point? How did you, how were you able to discern your performance to who you are as Nick Hogue? So I kind of want to kind of want to ask about that process and how you got there and how that has helped you to this day.

Nick

I remember exactly that game. It was against Italy and I think we lost 3 But I think I got pulled out after the second set and I was, I was very upset. Obviously, um, I wasn't happy about my performance as I said, but, um, those things, they do affect me in the volleyball way, but I know who I am outside volleyball and what happens on the court is never going to kind of dictate who I am outside people that know me, um, and people I'm very close to don't really care. If I win or lose, they're happy if I win, they're sad for me if I lose, but they don't dislike me more or like me more because I lost the game or I played poorly. Um, and that honestly comes with, I would say age, but it's more like experience. Cause I think the more, the older I got, the more I got to know myself and kind of figure out who I was outside volleyball. And I think that's huge, um, in life in general, uh, cause everybody obviously has something to do, uh, has a career. Um, but when it comes to kind of what you do outside your career, I think is equally, if not more important just because you don't want that to define you, like people know me as Nick, the volleyball player, but people that know me other than being a volleyball player know that there's a lot more to me than volleyball. And that's kind of where I'll always be secure about that. It's like, no matter what happens, volleyball, I'll always be the person I'm trying to be. And. I think that's, that's something to be proud of and really happy about. And, uh, even to this day, like whenever I have a poor game, um, I'll always, I'll go off watch, I'll watch the game about five times after every time, because I still want to get better. Right. Despite, um, having that kind of mindset in mind, um, it won't affect my livelihood. I'll still be happy as a person and with my relationships and all that stuff outside the, off the court. So. That's I think huge, huge, huge, huge. Cause then, cause then you can go back on the court, knowing what you want to work on and still be have joy playing the game despite having a poor performance.

Jesse

No, that's really well said. I liked that a lot. I, that conversation we had in that hotel room was really powerful for me. I think I made a switch. Like that night I was like, man, that's so true. Like, and you're right. It is something to be proud of, like extremely proud, probably more proud than any of the gold medals or any of the teams you've made. Cause that's who you are. I think that's really cool.

Nick

And it took a long time. It took a long time. Like my whole college life, it was like, this is, there's one thing I'm going to do is play volleyball and that's it. But once things probably didn't end up the way I wanted them to be, I was like, well, I can't rely on anything else. I can't rely on anyone else. And it's like, wow, I'm like actually very, very upset and sad. But then now I'm like, Oh, I come home and I'm like people to talk to, or I can not necessarily distract myself, but think about something else and still be happy about other things in my life.

Mathias

Do you have any specific examples of like when you were in college and those things were weighing on you? I

Nick

mean, a simple poor performance, even in practice would ruin my day. Cause that was the only thing, right? I didn't even care about school. Honestly, I was in school. I didn't really care about school. I didn't honestly care that much about my friends. It sounds terrible, but it was me, myself and I, and I'm going to go play pro. And that's it. So whenever that didn't, that didn't go well, I was like, well, what the hell? Like, I didn't plan for that. Like that's, that's not supposed to happen, but then it obviously does happen. You have bad days, you have bad games. Everybody does. But how do you cope with that is probably because now I know who I am and eventually what I want to do after volleyball and all that stuff. So there's always stuff. I'm very happy with my life outside volleyball, and I think that's huge.

Jesse

Was there like a specific moment that you remember that switching, or like you said, is it just a gradual thing? I think for me it was

Nick

gradual, because nobody ever kind of Well, I mean, I worked a lot with Kyle, right? Um, I'm sure we'll talk about him eventually, but, um, he kind of helped me kind of see both sides of things. Cause whenever I would have a bad performance, especially when I was younger, when we were, I think it was 2015 before we, we made it to Rio, like had a lot of talks about like, why am I failing right now? And he would be like, what's your definition of failure and all that. We got into that and that's kind of where I made the switch, but that took a lot, a lot of work with him and with myself. So it was gradual. It's not some, not a switch that just flipped.

Mathias

Where's the joy in the game for you? Jesse and I talked about this in our most recent episode. It's different for both of us. Jesse loves like the team and the culture and making friends with even coaches and people on other teams and that stuff. And my favorite part about the game is going to the gym every day and getting better, being able to do something today that I wasn't able to do yesterday and like seeing the progress of. Of the group and of myself. So what's that for you?

Nick

Uh, for me is like just playing a game right now. I think it changes throughout your career. Um, I think right now where I am is, is just enjoying playing volleyball. Um, I, I could get better at certain things, but at this point it's more of a mindset and keeping myself in the best shape I possibly can. Um, but when I go to the gym, it's not easy sometimes. Um, and that, that there's a lot of factors, right? I'm not necessarily. And the best league or some people I get along with some people I don't. And it's not always enjoyable, but I'll always try to find that joy of just playing the game. And that's kind of where I'm at right now is like, every time I go, I'll. I'll mess around with the guys. I'll like have fun, kind of challenge them and stuff like that. But that's where I just need to feed the fun part of me. Cause if I don't, then it's just going to be, it's not going to be fun. And that's kind of where my motivation stems from. Um, the other one is honestly just staying in shape, um, lifting really hard. Like I enjoy a lot, like just feeling good outside the gym and just feeling strong or feeling, feeling healthy. Um, obviously that's, that's. Outside off the court, but. Yeah, on the court, just, just enjoying like challenging some players, um, making great plays, having fun playing right now. That's kind of where I'm at.

Mathias

Do you wish you had more of that mindset throughout your whole career?

Nick

Uh, yeah, for sure. Um, I had that mindset when I started playing national team. Once I started playing, started playing pro as much as I loved it, it slowly turned into a job. And even though I did find some glimpse of fun the whole way, it was sometimes, especially when you get like a lot of pressure from the clubs and stuff, that's where you can, it's, it's, it's not the easiest to, to find joy in those moments because there's so many, it's not like national team, national team is so much fun all the time, right? Cause you're with the guys you've been growing with and then like you're representing your country and all that stuff when you're pro, it's very different. And that's kind of where you can find, you need to look for those glimpses of fun, which is. Probably where, where you can find good performances. I feel like that's such a huge component of, of, uh, of our, of our job. Um, look at, look at the French team. Every time you see them, they're just having so much fun and they just love playing volleyball. And like, honestly, they're just performing well and, uh, kind of jealous of that.

Jesse

So where, where is Canada's biggest room for improvement as a, as a national 18?

Nick

That's a, that's a big one. Um, honestly, we've kind of found this, we found this pretty interesting kind of stability in terms of performance we've seen in the last 20 years where you can see the, you saw the, the, the sharp increase in the, in the And like the performance of the program. And then you kind of like saw them that we can beat everyone. We also lose to everyone. And then most of the time when we play big teams, it's like 25, 23 every time. And like, what is that last little bit? That's really hard to say, but I think you see all these guys playing in really good leagues. And if we can keep players in those leagues, like competitive leagues, you're just going to keep seeing the program get better and better. And I'm not saying we're going to win. I'm not saying we're going to be top five. I'm just saying that we'll consistently be at that high level. And then you'll be one of the big team and they'll take these like smaller, smaller steps. And I think it just comes from experience. And, and, and I think a big one is just to get, try to get there young and try to get in those leagues young, um, try to get that experience. And on the technical side of things, that's honestly, we're not far. We're we're, I think we're there and we, we keep seeing it, but honestly, it comes from guys just getting so much experience overseas. I think that's the biggest point. If we can get those, all the players, um, Over there and get experience. It's, it's just going to help in the longterm. And obviously like you want some guys to get into the good clubs with, with good coaches, especially, but, uh, I'm pretty, I'm looking forward to the future, but I think another thing. Well, what kind of needs to do is really think in the future and not really think every four years, you got to think every eight years at some point, because you can see, you see the, some guys like retiring and, and a lot of big, big change in the group. Um, that's where it's like really dangerous to just look for, for like, medals, but you gotta be patient and look at it in a very, very long term. Or medium, like four to eight years is usually, is usually, and you want guys to commit. That's another thing that's really, really, I think. In the past couple of years, it's been, it's been a struggle is where guys commit. Like, I remember when I started, I was like, I'm here until I can't walk. No matter what you miss weddings, you miss, you miss a lot of things, but I mean, it comes back tenfold, right? Like it's, it's all worth it. Um, sacrifices are huge, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't change my 12 year Nasherton career for anything. And I think commitment is a big one too, for the, the, the program.

Jesse

Do you think the nature of volleyball with no off season? Really? Like you might get a week here or there. Does that play a big role in the lack of commitment? Like there's just no time to truly recover and guys just burn out way quicker than maybe they were expecting or they wanted to.

Nick

So that kind of ties up with, with how Canada can keep performing is the problem is we don't have many bodies to play at a high level. Um, other national teams have, I don't know, 36 guys that could play at the VNL level, but we don't. Um, so it's hard to like. It would be great to give breaks to some guys, but sometimes we need bodies to actually perform. We can't just throw people in there and be like, Oh, if we lose everything, it's fine. But it's like, Especially now because it's so competitive in terms of the world rankings and how we qualify for certain events. It's really difficult. Um, the other thing is for sure, I mean, I don't think it's a physical burnout because I think bodies can, volleyball players can like withstand a lot. We've obviously seen that in the past, I mean forever. Um, it's more the mental part. And a lot of guys are like, is it really worth for me to miss family time or seeing my kids and stuff like that? And, and it's totally understandable. It's very, very difficult and everybody's different. Um, like I said, when I was younger, I was just like, I'm just going to play volleyball. And there was no, nothing that would stop me, including families and friends, which sounds a little bit nuts, but I mean, that's kind of where my mind was. Now it's very much shifting slowly. Um, in terms of future of the national team, we talked about this a bit before the call and I don't know yet, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, times change too. So commitment is not, is not easy and it's hard to make people commit for eight years. That's a lot of, that's a lot of, that's a long time. Everybody has a different idea of what they want to do with their lives, which is totally fine. Like you can't make someone play volleyball for eight years in the summer. So, so it's, it's. So, but it's, I think it's important if, if we don't have the program

Mathias

to move forward. So you mentioned not being able to walk just a couple of minutes ago and you've played for 12 years on the national team and I'm assuming similar time pro and you're getting old and your body, the last little while, no, okay. Here's my question. My question. It's just the truth. That's just the truth. Right? Yeah. So my question is. Why, why are you still playing? And, and I, I think from what I've seen from you, like you're, you're buying to the volleyball Canada and the national team is something that I've, that I really admire about you. And it's like, it's bigger than yourself. So can you talk about maybe that a little bit and what that means to you? And then also like, why keep, why keep playing?

Nick

So the big thing, at least something I can't. Yeah. Like I'll never, I don't know how to phrase this, but for me, it's never been about me. And that's probably stemming from Glenn being such a big part in the national team growth. Um, he's big on the program. He, it's like, he, he loves the program and he wants it to succeed. And obviously that's kind of something where I went through and maybe at the start, it was about, Oh, I want to look good. Cause I want to get a contract or I want the Olympics or blah, blah, blah. But now it's like, I just want the program to be in good hands and do well. And if that means I'm, I don't make a roster, but the roster is going to be better without me. Then so be it. Um, especially now that I'm like, as you said, I'm older. Um, I haven't, I didn't play. I wasn't the starter last summer. Uh, Eric and, and, and Steve did a fantastic job. Um, so how did I find that it was, it wasn't, it's not easy not playing obviously, but the more, the less I played, the more I told myself, it's never been about you. It's always been about this team succeeding. And how can I make the team succeed without being on the court? So maybe, okay, helping the guys, it's, it's very different to see the, the game from off the court and you see a lot more things cause it feels like it's a little bit slower cause you're, you're kind of, you're, you're away from the court so you can see a lot more things. So as soon as I see something, boom, I share information, I share information and practice if someone needs, need something or I see something, I'll always help, um, I'm never going to be the guy that's going to step away and be like, or look pissed that I'm not playing. And that's something that even though sometimes I do feel it, I suppress it right away because that's, it's never been about me. It's especially on like on the national, it's never been about me. So it's always, I'm always trying to outsource my experience and all my knowledge about volleyball to other people. So the team is better why I keep playing so professionally, obviously there's a financial part of side. That's pretty obvious, I think for, for older players. Um, but besides that, I'm still enjoying it. Uh, the lifetime is, or the lifestyle is great. You travel, I love traveling. Uh, it's always been great. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling, I'm slowly feeling like I'm missing a lot back home. So that's kind of slowly me, like slowly maybe pulling me away from the game, but it's still, to me, it's still worth playing. Uh, like, like I said, I talked about earlier, like the fun and just enjoying. Being with like meeting some new guys on my team, there's just two really good friends that I have now that are just amazing people. Um, so meeting new people, uh, living in different cultures too, that made me grow as a person, also part of it. Um, and for national team, what keeps me going is really selfless kind of, I want this program to succeed. Whether I'm in it or not. So, so that's, that's the main, uh, the main points for why I'm still playing. I think.

Jesse

Didn't you, uh, you talked a little bit about Glenn, your dad. Can you talk a little bit about biggest thing or biggest lesson that he's taught you? Um, maybe about leadership? Because I kind of want to move into you as, as the captain of our national team and how you view leadership and stuff like that. And I'm assuming, I don't, maybe I'm wrong, but that Glenn had a big role in, in how you lead and how you interact with people. Oh, he's one of the,

Nick

one of the guys that kind of told me like, Nick, your role is very different. Um, no, and he didn't mean it as like, You shouldn't not think about not playing. It's like, no, you still try to compete and be a starter. But if you're not, then like, what are the next steps? And he kind of let me settle in that space. So it's, it's fairly new for me. I've only been captain for three years after the Tokyo Olympics before that it was gourd. Um, and I mean, I personally listened to, I try to gain knowledge from just leaders in the world. Doesn't have to be in the, in, in, in sports. So, uh, I just tried to expand my knowledge about how to be a better leader. He, he actually didn't step in too much. He was like, he's going to learn by himself and he trusts me to kind of become, or to, to, he trusted me to kind of know how to be a leader and explore that on my own. Cause I, I'm sure I failed many times as a, as a captain, or, but then the other thing is he's always been good on feedback and always asked feedback. And that's kind of like where he learned a lot. And I think that's why he. He was such a great success as a coach is because no matter who the coach, the coaches were around him, he would always ask, why are you doing this? Why, like, what's the purpose of the drill? Cause he was trying to learn despite being a very good coach already. Like I remember when I was playing in stage up, he was already the coach and national team, and he just comes to the gym and watch us practice. And he goes to the coach. And the coach is like, Oh my God, like what's going on. And he just asked him like, Oh, like what's the purpose of the drill. And then he had a notepad and like noting down the drill. Cause he thought it was interesting. So he's always, no matter who he's talking to, he'll always try to learn from them. And I've. Learn from that because I remember that exact practice. I was like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I'm just curious about the drill I'm trying to learn from anything like literally just any ideas or so feedback Probably feedback was the biggest one that he uh, but he didn't never actually not force it But he never actually shared that with me. He just kind of let me learn by myself, which honestly

Jesse

I think some of the best leaders, they do that too. They know when to step in and when to let you explore and fail on your own. Cause learn or failure is a huge part of learning. Like you said, I think that's really cool. That's really cool.

Mathias

do you think are some of the characteristics of a leader just in general principles? And I'm, I want to get at like, what do people need to view you as in order to

Nick

I don't want to be, I don't want to be a boss and I think it's, I hope I made that clear for anyone that's playing national team or that was, even if when I wasn't the captain, I don't want to feel like I'm superior to anyone. I don't want guys to be afraid of me. I don't want guys to, to feel like they can't talk to me. I want guys to come and ask questions. I want them to, to come and feed, like kind of eat up my experience so they can kind of. accelerate theirs. Um, at the end of the day, I can't really exactly share my experiences. I will share them, but you, you have to experience your own experiences to kind of gain that. Um, I want the guys to view me as a leader and as a resource. Um, so it's, I'm not going to boss people around. I'm going to keep people accountable because I think it's important, um, that we're on the same, on the same boat and the same culture, especially on the national team. That's that's, and through the last like eight years, it's been so easy because the guys are so responsive and. People know what volleyball Canada culture is when they come in. So it's been very easy. So I think I just want the guys not to be afraid to ask questions. And that's that's the biggest one for me. I don't want guys to be afraid of me. I don't want guys to think that I'm this, this three time Lincoln guy that just doesn't care about anyone else. And I'm very much the opposite. As soon as there's a new guy on the team, I'm going to try and get to know them. What works, what doesn't work. And I hope that. That helps them integrate the group, first of all. But there's a reason why you're here. It's'cause you're a good volleyball player and whoever chose you to be here believes that you can bring this program further. So

Jesse

that, that was really evident to me. I can't remember if I was on the B team or the junior team, but I was really struggling in a certain passing situation, especially on my left. And I was like, all right, you were sitting in the corner stretching or sitting on your, on Nick's chair right by the door And I was. And I was like, all right, I'm just gonna go ask. And I was terrified. I said, Hey. And you were like, yeah, I know who you are. I was like, oh, okay. Um, can you help me? And you took the time. We walked onto the court and I said, Hey, like these sirs, I'm struggling to my left and picked your brain. And you were like, I didn't really know what to expect. That was the first time I talked to you and you were super helpful, super warm and, and understanding too, because I was, I was obviously self conscious about my lack of performance in this area. And you were like, yeah, I've been there. I am there. This is what I've been doing. And I think that's, that's a great mark of a leader and someone who truly believes in supporting everyone from the ground up. I think I was. 17 or 18. And you were, I don't know, what were you? 32 back then? It was going to be all podcasts.

Nick

No, I do remember. I remember you were, you didn't have your knee pads on anymore and you had your, you didn't have shoes on anymore. And you went on the court and asked me, I remember exactly that moment. And I remember that was quite recent after your back surgery as well.

Jesse

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick

So I do remember that. Yeah. I remember stepping on the court with you. That was good. Yeah, that's what, that's what, I don't want the guys to not ask me because if, if they don't ask me, they, I mean, worse, they can, what's worse can happen to me, I say no, but I would never say no. Um, so I hope more guys do that if I end up again, like in that situation and I hope guys learn from your experience with me and I hope they, yeah, I hope they just ask me questions.

Jesse

I think that can be said for most, if not all high level volleyball players. I don't know any that are truly like not willing to help. Yeah. I mean, like, come on,

Nick

it takes, it takes five minutes. Like why wouldn't you, unless they're really scared of the competition. Oh, if this, if I help this guy, he's going to get better and I'm going to lose my, my spot or something, but like, Be a good person.

Mathias

Um, do you have any questions for Nick? Speaking of questions for Nick, do you have a question? I got

Oog

rapid fire questions. Oh, nice. Let's do those. Oh, Oh Oh Oh I

Nick

thought that was part of it too. I was like, yeah,

Mathias

it's high level stuff right there. This production's elite.

Oog

I don't know. How do I do this?

Mathias

I think you gotta go like this.

Oog

Okay. Um, I, I only have a few, but I'll just, I'll think of them as you're, as you're stating. So, um, this is rapid fire questions with Oog, Nick. Um, number one, uh, do you have any hidden talents?

Nick

I can, I can detect a wine by smelling it. That's not a hundred percent accurate, but I'm pretty good at smelling wine and knowing where it's from and not just if it's red or white.

Oog

Do you follow the super vino bros on Instagram?

Nick

I don't, but I will now. I follow a lot of stuff on wine, but

Oog

They're, uh, they're these two brothers that do these wine tastings, and the one's always, like, trying to guess where it's from, and I don't think I've ever seen one that's accurate. They're always off.

Nick

It's very difficult, but During COVID, I used to do that a lot. I'm I'm big, big, big, big wine person. I love wine. I love the history of the geography, the geology, everything about it. And, uh, during COVID I would do wine tastings at home and like, I was getting really good at it. And wine tasting, like I'm actually like tasting and spitting it out. I don't know if people are going to believe that, but I promise. Um, so that's something I'm very passionate about, but that might be, uh, I guess, uh, I don't know if you could call that for sure.

Oog

That's something that not everyone would know about you. Um, okay. So you played in like Poland, Italy, uh, Turkey and Qatar. Is that correct? And France out of those five countries, what was like the most memorable meal you had? Like, what's your favorite? I know you're a foodie.

Nick

That's a good question. Um, probably. Probably Turkey. And there's a reason for that. There's a, so I became a foodie as I played pro, like in France, I didn't really care all that much, even though I lived in France, which is unfortunate. Um, in Italy, I like my second year in Italy is when I kind of started getting the fun kind of, I just started enjoying fine food and wine pairings and all that stuff. And when I got to Turkey, there was about, there was a Michelin star restaurant about 40 minutes from my place. And the whole aesthetics of the restaurant, it was like in their own garden, they all grow their own food. Um, so, that was probably the best part. Uh, it was, yeah, 35, 40 minutes from Izmir.

Oog

So that's

Nick

probably the best meal, yeah.

Oog

Best meal. Um, do you remember what you had? Yeah.

Nick

I mean, it's all like molecular gastronomy, so it would be very hard for me to like, Say exactly wow so that means they like did you like chemistry in the back and like it's it's you had like

Jesse

salmon egg foam and some

Nick

yeah, exactly, exactly like it'll taste like celery, but yet it's like salmon or like crazy stuff like that. Wow I could send you a picture if you want. You can taste celery

Jesse

Of course you could taste celery. With peanut butter on it. That's funny. Of all the flavors you could choose, you made your salmon taste like

Oog

celery. Celery's great, I love celery. Okay, um, favorite music genre? Favorite pregame song, um, or at least maybe what's your go to in the, in the recent past, because yeah, yeah, you know, you're old and you've probably had lots.

Nick

In the, um, I'm very particular in terms of music. I've been listening to a lot of. Classic jazz recently, that might come as a surprise to a lot of people, but, um, and I love instrumental music, like love, love instrumental music. Um, I don't know, I don't even know what it's called, but my favorite band of all time is, uh, Explosions in the Sky. And, I don't know, every time I tell people about that, they just, they don't like them, so. Pre game, big fan of System of a Down. Uh, pregame, Slipknot as well. So

Oog

I would

Nick

say those two, those two specific songs. I wouldn't really know before I forget. Maybe

Oog

I'm going to check out explosions in the sky.

Nick

If you want, I guarantee you're not going to like it.

Oog

Well, that's okay. Um,

Nick

sorry. You guys have seen Friday Night Lights, the movie. Yeah. All their soundtracks are from them. That's cool. Fun fact. The

Oog

movie or the TV show?

Nick

The movie. I mean, I think there's some of the TV show, but the movie, like all their sound cards, soundtracks from Spoken in the Sky. Are you, uh, are you

Mathias

on Spotify, Nick, or Apple Music? I am. Okay. When we had our dad on here, he, he gave his Spotify handle to the people. So if you want, if you want to do the same, maybe people can. Nope, not doing that. Check out your playlist.

Jesse

Yeah. Um, that was hilarious. Like totally unprovoked. He's like, And if you want to follow me, handle it's awesome. I'm also

Oog

65 months. Spotify, please follow me. Um, okay. My, what is one thing or one hobby that you wish you could have gotten into or that you want to get into?

Nick

Probably learn how to play the guitar. That's honestly like the number one thing I thought about it many times. I never actually got into it. Maybe I'm too lazy. I don't know, but that's probably the one thing. Or even like an instrument in general, but I feel like the guitar is kind of like the, the basic kind of thing to do when you want to get into music.

Oog

Yeah. That, that wraps up a rapid fire questions with Oog. Back to you.

Mathias

Yeah. So yeah, good section.

Jesse

so how many years did you spend in university?

Nick

I didn't go to university,

Jesse

right? You went straight from, sorry, in say jet, uh, three years, three years. And you were saying earlier in the podcast, do you think we should get guys into better leagues younger? What is your stance, I guess, on going to university versus going to pro why you should do one or the other? Cause obviously like if you're, if you need. If you're not ready to go overseas, you need to go to university. So,

Nick

so what I was lucky with, there was FTC. Um, it's similar to NEP, but it was, it was eight months. Um, sorry. So after my, my third CIVEPI, I went to the FTC when I was 18 or 19. And, uh, and, uh, and that's like that year that. The eight months, they just like physically pretty much killed us. Like it was like super, super intense. And it was made, it was made to get guys ready to go pro. So most of the guys that were with my FTC here was, well, my brother, uh, Graham, Jay, Graham Bygris, Jay Blankenow, all those guys that were kind of going out or finishing university, going to, into pro. And it was just like, like bulking phase and like reps and reps and reps and reps. And it ended up like, Preparing me to go pro and luckily I had that, but it's true that most of the time when you're out of high school, especially you're not ready to go pro. That being said, I don't think that's necessarily a reason not to go pro. If you have the opportunity to, um, there's a lot of people that young athletes can reach out to that. If you want to accelerate your experience, especially cause that's kind of why you're going overseas at that age is not necessarily to play or not necessarily to make money. But it's to get experience, especially if you have the thought of, yeah, that, or also like the, the thought of having this long career and playing national team and going to the Olympics and, and, and yeah, so it's just, I'm not saying it's the right call. I'm not saying it's the wrong call. It also depends on what you want, and what your priorities are. Cause you can always, and this is going to be. Controversial. I'm sure, but you can always study when you're overseas, but you can't play pro while you're in the university, obviously. So that's what I did. That's was, that was my experience. I sacrificed my university education to become a professional volleyball player at a younger age. I didn't make money, but I was lucky enough to be in a really good club, um, at a young age. I ended up playing quite a bit in my first two years of playing in France. So, I mean, I was also very lucky because. Obviously, Glenn had contacts in France and I was able to get a really good contract in a really good club, structured. And I also had the chance to actually go to Maldonada, like, instead of going to France. And, uh, Glenn suggested to go to France first. And I didn't know anything. I was like, sure. I didn't even know what modern it was. Or I knew obviously, but I didn't know it was like such a legendary club. I was just like, ah, it's cool. I'm going to go play pro. Um, but that ended up being a great, great stepping stone towards my career because it was France, as you know, Jesse is such a, and, and TSC played there too. It's such a technical league. It's hard to score guys are very technical, very strong, like they're very agile and, and you just get better. I mean, You just get better by playing with those type of players and learning from them. So going back to if you should go play pro, I think another big part of it is, is guys shouldn't just go play pro. Cause they have a pro contract. If you get a contract offer in Doha, Qatar, when you're 18, I would suggest to stay in university. It's not the best level. You're not, probably not going to make great progress here. The money might be great, but it's probably better if you stay in university and work towards there. And then the next year, look for other contractor. Um, so yeah, that's kind of my take on that.

Mathias

That makes sense to me. Like be open to the opportunity. For sure. Where you go.

Nick

Yes, because like, there's some opportunities that might present themselves. Like, I had the option to go to Modena that first year and I didn't get another chance after that to go to that club. If I chose to go to Modena, maybe my career would have been better and maybe, maybe not. So I don't know. There's, there's, there's opportunities and it's scary and it's pretty terrifying to just drop school and go play professionally in a league that you might not know the language or you might not have a good experience, but you can always go back to university after that. Yeah. But you might not get that opportunity to go play pro again, or in that club or that being said, don't just do whoever's thinking of playing pro listening to this, don't just get the contract and sign it. Also, there's a lot of people you can reach out to and ask for information about the club, the coaches and all that stuff. So do your research before you sign a contract at a young age. That's sage advice.

Mathias

I want to I want to dig into like pressure and nerves. Because I'm sure you've experienced a ton of that over your career. I was a part of one of what I felt was one of the higher pressure moments in the last couple of years when we were on the brink of relegation from VNL in the Philippines and we had one game against China to save Our future VNL prospects. And I remember you told me one time about before the 2021 Olympics, the first game, you were sitting next to TJ and you guys were freaking out. What, what have you learned about pressure and nerves? And what's kind of the mental frame that you use, um, in those moments?

Nick

Um, well, I think that's, that was all, that's always the lesson that I tell people about is that one game before, like the first game of the Olympics in, in, in Tokyo against Italy. I remember sitting, warming up with TJ and we both look at each other, trying to act tough, you know, but actually like, I'm literally💩💩💩💩💩💩my pants right now. And then he's like, Oh yeah, me too. And then as soon as we said that, I was like, it was like a physical. Like release. And I was like, okay, I'm not the only one that's stressed out. It's normal to be stressed out, especially in these high stakes games. And feeling that is a privilege, because that's, that means you're doing something that's very, very valuable. It doesn't matter if it's to you or to, to, to the country or to your family, doesn't matter. But if you feel that, that's something I like to remind myself is that like pressure is a privilege. If you didn't have pressure, then it would just be like, whatever about anything. But when you have pressure, when you're stressed out, it's that you're doing something that's valuable, important, whether it's, it doesn't matter what it is, but if you feel that way, it's usually a good thing. And that's trying to, that's also something that I've kind of grown into reminding myself into, like, I think it's, I think it's such a great, thumbs up, I think it's such a great way to look at pressure.

Mathias

What, did you come to that realization by yourself? Or was that something that Kyle maybe told you?

Nick

We actually never talked about the privilege part, but Kyle did. He was kind of like the probably the best thing he ever taught me was like, don't keep your stress in. Yeah. If you act like you're not stressed, it'll bite you later. Cause when something goes wrong, then you're like, Oh no, like I wasn't prepared for this. But if you're, you're like, Oh, like this was maybe I was a little bit too tight for this pass. And maybe, and knowing that you're stressed out for me, it always helped to kind of voice it to someone. Mostly that I'm close to. I remember against that. And when we played China to not get really good, I was like, guys, I'm stressed out, but before the game, I remember brought everyone together. I was like, I'm pretty stressed out right now. But there's not another team I'd want to be, uh, in this situation with like, you're, you guys are the guys that I want to be here with when I feel like this. And that like instantly kind of released my stress. And I was like, all right, let's get to business, you know? So that I think helps a lot is for me, at least that's something that helped. And maybe people think, Oh, like, like you're vulnerable and stuff, but yeah. So it

Jesse

helps. I think vulnerability is fantastic. I think we need more of that, honestly.

Mathias

I've started to think of mental toughness, not as like a strength or like a grit thing, but more of like a release thing. Like the, the, the tough part is letting it, letting things go. And I think the verbalizing of it. Really helps. I understand. And the

Nick

reason, the reason why it's hard to let go is because I think we have this, this thought that it's, it's vulnerable and it's weak, but like completely, it's actually, the reason why it's hard is because it's, it's actually not weak because it's hard to do that. And people that kind of realize that. And then if there's people that think, Oh, you're like a little bit of a, of a chicken shit or whatever, it's like, wow, that's you're entitled to your own opinions.

Oog

I think that's something that like. Even, especially as men, like, is really hard for us too. Like, I know that means different at the university level too, but like, there's always something going on in someone's life we're dealing with that, a lot with our team, it's like guys are going through shit that just, You just wouldn't expect university age dudes to be going through. And it's like, if you just talk about it and you're vulnerable and you have way big, way bigger of a support group than you actually think you do when you, when you share things, I think like as men, it's really hard for us to just say that we're struggling or say that we're scared or say that we're whatever, but I think it's important. So yeah, that's cool.

Nick

And as soon as you say, like, I've had so many instances where, like, when you said, it's like, you feel that pressure just release. Yeah. And then you're more freer and it's just like, it just helps.

Mathias

Have you ever experienced self doubt?

Nick

Yes. Oh, yes. And I don't think anyone in the world has ever not experienced that. I think it's very natural thing. And I think it occurs, I think it occurs to everyone at some point.

Mathias

Except Kevin Tilley, apparently. We asked him that question. That was

Nick

about passing, no?

Mathias

It was a general question, just like that. He just said no, so we just moved on. I guess we could have probably We could have probably dug a little deeper, but Yeah, that's why we asked the question. We assumed that everyone had, but

Jesse

He said the only time he ever had a little doubt was after his surgery, so then he's like, but I got back on the court and I could remember how to play, so it was fine.

Nick

Well, there

Jesse

you go. Good for him. Have you, uh, I, I was just Googling here. Today's actually Bell Let's Talk Mental Health Day, which I didn't know until just now. Um, and you were talking about earlier that you were in some pretty dark places when you were younger. What kind of advice would you have to any younger players, actually any younger people that might be going through some stuff, whether they're on Oog's team or, Um,

Nick

I mean reaching out for me, like those dark places when I was younger were just related to volleyball. So it wasn't that big of a deal. Um, but I've been through some dark times in the last couple of years. And, um, Instant, instant kind of instinct would be to isolate and not talk to anyone. And that's probably the worst thing you could do. Um, and it would get, it would get so bad that at some point I was like, okay, I'm just going to message someone cause like, I need, I need someone's perspective on anything or even just to talk to someone. A lot of that, a lot of it was, was with Kyle. Um, cause I know, I mean, he's in that, he's in that, that kind of psychological Um, so most of the time it was him, but I think just reaching out, honestly, and he wasn't even trying to, it wasn't a therapy session. It was just like chatting and it was like, helpful. Um, I haven't experienced, uh, extended periods of depression, thankfully. But, uh, when it sounds cliche to say to reach out and that's what everybody says, but it's true. And it doesn't have to be a therapist. It can just be a friend knowing that, knowing that someone knows you're struggling. And if that person is close to you, they're always going to come back and ask how you were, like how you are after a day or a week. They'll always reach out to see how, how, how things are evolving and knowing that there's someone that's looking out for you is always good. Doesn't matter who it is, honestly, but reach out to someone you're close to that you trust and they won't judge you as scary as it is.

Jesse

But that's a good reminder though, even on the flip side, Is when someone does come to you with something, make sure you go check in. I think that's often the part that's left out of the talk to someone. It's you have to talk back, go check in with them again. Uh, cause you're right. You feel very valued when someone checks in and remembers that you were going through something or that you struggled with something.

Nick

It's a good point. It's a really good point.

Oog

Um, kind of. Shifting gears, if that's okay. Um, in a couple of other episodes we talked about, like what, or I guess the episodes that we did on ourselves, it was, what are you an expert at? Tia said that he believes that. Like everyone's an expert in something. So like, I can't really remember what I said. I think I said maybe bugging Jesse or something, but if you had to choose what you are an expert at, what is it?

Nick

Um, I mean, I've, I feel like I've mastered volleyball and within volleyball. I think serving is probably the one thing that I feel like I'm a pretty decent expert at. Um, yeah, I think that's one thing I can think of.

Jesse

Fair enough. What makes your serve so efficient?

Nick

Um, I have, well, I believe I have every kind of serve. I believe I can serve from, From one to one with a float serve, I can spin from the exact same toss and the exact same approach. That's kind of what my trademark serving has been. Um, so being able to serve from everywhere from the baseline at any angle, float, spin, short. The only one serve I can't do is a spin toss with a short float serve, but I'll just, I'll just roll instead. I've never actually tried to master that. So, um, since I was, I remember, sorry, go ahead. Okay.

Jesse

No, no, keep going, that sounded good, whatever you're gonna say.

Nick

When, uh, I lived in Paris when I was young, that's when I played, when I started playing volleyball when I was 7. And as soon as I got back to Canada when I was 11, I, I was starting to spin serve And I was already, already trying to, like, sidespin. My serves. So I was already trying to kind of, and I missed them about 90 percent of them, but I had that, I was starting to have that feeling and you, you like you make nine mistakes out of 10 and then you make eight, seven, six, five, and then you're like, okay, I'm starting to like get the feel off of it. And that was only for Spencer, but I was like, it's trial and error at the end of the day. Um, and I think that's probably my favorite part of the game is serving. Like, I love watching guys serve. And I love what they're doing with the ball. If, if it's intentional or not, that's fine. But, um, I'll watch video for passers. I'll watch that. I'm about to play against, I'll watch their weaknesses. I'll watch which angle they struggle to pass. Um, and that's kind of, that's

Jesse

That's cool. In, in your opinion, is serving a team skill?

Nick

The only way it would be a team skill is managing the stakes and trusting every guy that's, that are able to serve as best as he can. Cause that, I mean, serving is such a big part of the game too, but also is. I mean, ssihehwhahas we could talk about this for a long time, but it becomes a huge, it's a team skill because once you have a steady and comfortable side out game, then your service can really be comfortable with pushing because you know that if you miss then the team is good enough to side out right away and then we can put pressure serving again. That being said, I think the actual action of serving is individual.

Jesse

Yeah. Yeah. I was more like wondering about like, what do you think about coaches who are like never miss? After the person before you miss or don't miss half a timeouts, don't miss the first serve of the game.

Nick

I'm personally not a fan. I mean, there's a point where like, if you miss, if guys miss four in a row, you're like, okay. But you wouldn't say like, don't miss. It's like, I think every individual player needs to have that feeling too. It's like, okay, we're missing too many, like, especially, especially when the team is very good at block defense. Then the coach be like, guys, make sure to like, we trust our block defense so that maybe that's that could also, uh, go into account of serving being a team kind of skill, but the individual kind of service is more individual like skill. Otherwise, like there's also a lot of. tactical and, and, uh, and, uh, game plan aspect to it, like serve to one, cause the setter struggles to set to four when in the cut, the balls come from behind and stuff like that. But, but yeah, I'm not a fan of, of, of coaches being like saying don't miss or don't miss after a guy or just, just go with your serve. Like, I mean, in my experience, every time I've, uh, I said, okay, Nick, just put the ball in. I've missed. So

Mathias

can you describe you're standing behind the baseline with the ball, what you're looking at, um, what you're thinking and what you're feeling throughout like the whole serving process.

Nick

So that usually happens once, um, I mean, I do it every time, but once the very first of the game or the set. Um, I'll look up and know exactly which rotation they're in, who I want to serve, uh, where the little barrel is, where the middle is, and where the setter is, and who served before me, what they did with their serve. Um, because if the guy before me served a float serve on a guy and the guy shanked it, but like, and then you can know, like, there's, there's, There's also a mind game, like, Oh, maybe this guy's not comfortable serving or receiving float serves right now because he just had a shaky pass and that might be an option or, a lot of the times you can play mind games as well with the liberals, usually you don't serve a barrel and sometimes, you know, that they're going to cheat. Then you could just go towards. Where they're leaving the gap. So there's so many, so many things, and I love to talk about serving. So, um, but that's the feeling I have. And sometimes I'm just like, okay, like I feel good physically. I'm just going to hit it hard. Doesn't matter where it really goes, but obviously you have a general direction. If the liberals in one, you try to go five, six, um, And yeah, it's, it's cause after that, you know, where you, what you served last time, what rotation you're serving in and what the other, what the other team is struggling as you're the servers on your team are serving.

Jesse

Yeah. That's cool. In that, in that sense, it's a team skill, right? Cause you're aware of what everyone else is doing, but you're the one forming the skill. I think that's a good different differentiation between the two.

Mathias

And then after. After you toss the ball, is there like, what are you thinking about anything? Or you just trust that, you know, how to hit the serve. You're only thinking about the target or do you have like a swing thought?

Nick

Uh, no, once I toss the ball, I usually decide what I'm going to do before I toss the ball. Once the ball is tossed, I know where I'm going to serve. Um, and there's some times where you'll, people are trying to hide. If they go three or four receivers, then you can kind of toss and see. Okay. But even when I see it, I usually just go with my serve and then gather the information for my next serve. Cause like, if you change your mind as you're tossing, it's kind of like, that's usually doesn't go so great.

Mathias

It'd probably be uncommitted.

Nick

Yeah. And then you think too much. Well, maybe they're not going forward. Maybe I'm not seeing accurately or something like that. So

Jesse

we, uh, you know,

Mathias

I just, I, I, we did a cool thing, uh, when we did our serving episode where we all shared our favorite serving moments. From our careers. Cause I feel like everyone's gone on that one run or hit that one serve where they just, and I remember you showing me that little sequence against, uh, when you're playing at Trentino and you served. I

Nick

was playing in Perugia. In Perugia, sorry. And it was, it was against Modena. Yeah. That's probably my, my top serving moment.

Mathias

Can you run us through, can you paint a picture for us?

Nick

Okay. So it's two, two in the series is best of five. So it's the semi final of the Italian championship. And, uh, we lose the first set. We win the second one. No, we win the first one. We lose the second one. They're up 23, 18 in the, uh, in the third set. So we're about to lose the set. Coach subs me in. Kevin Tilley was actually playing for Modena back then with, uh, Bednosz, the Polish player. And, uh, I get one ace. Yeah. And then I think we get a dig. So it's, yeah, it's 23 19. We, they receive it. We get a dig. 23 20. Then I get one ace in the seam between the libero and the guy in one. And then he calls a timeout. Coming back from the timeout, I roll the ball short to two. And the guy rolls his ankle, trying to pass it. And he was like, scoring like, I don't know, 80 percent of the points from Modena. And then, uh, we So we get subbed out and then we get two more points after that. And then that just, and then we ended up winning three, one. Uh, and then we ended up going to the final of the, of the Italian championship, which was pretty cool.

Mathias

Just broke open the game. Yeah. I remember you telling me, you tell me also you, you had played with the setter on the other side or something. Is that right? Michael Christensen.

Nick

No. I mean, I know him. Or the Libero. I

Mathias

just remember you saying you'd played with someone on the other side and they were like explaining all of the spots that you can serve or something. And he's just pointing to like every zone of the court.

Nick

That might've been a different time. Okay. A lot of people do that. Like whenever, whenever I serve, like whenever I go back to the serving line, I see like the middle, the setter, the Libero, the coach talking. And I like, that's just so much fun to me.

Mathias

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the best dude. When you know they've watched and they're like, they know, you know, that they've game planned you hard because you're that big of a threat. That's the best.

Nick

But that's, that's what's, what I love about serving and why I think I have a great service that even though they know where I can serve, they don't know where I'm actually going to serve. I mean, there's obviously I have some more tendencies that I'm more comfortable with, but I'm still able to hit those serves. They can't really prepare for it because they have an idea, but they can't really prepare for everything.

Jesse

Yeah. when you have the ability to hit different serves, you already have the edge, you already have a step up. Even if you, even if you never hit. A role in a game. There's still that inkling in their mind that he might roll and then you've already gained an extra second.

Nick

There's a, there's a period of time where I think it was Nash team. It was, uh, Like between 2018 and 2020, where every time I would serve, I would at least once a game, I would get a Mason one because the libero would always, I would serve five, six, five, six, five, six, and the little bear one would just leave the line and I would just the exact same toss and I would just hit the ball to one and every time I get a nice, like once a game, and that's like my favorite feeling because as they adjust. Then you can like change at the last minute. And then that's just an extra point. I'm not saying like, I'm going to serve to one all the time, but you know,

Jesse

we, uh, we get a lot of questions in our question box about hybrid serving and how to develop a hybrid serve and how to do it, and you're one of the best in the world at the hybrid serve. I think more specifically the float part of it. Can you walk us through how you would teach that or maybe the key points of a hybrid serve?

Nick

So it's funny, cause there's a lot of, a lot of concepts in a hybrid serve. First of all, you got to make it, you got to stop the spin. Cause if it doesn't float, then it doesn't really matter. Might as well just spin the ball. Um, you got to dissociate all the, these parts, I think. First of all, like practice stopping that spin. So like toss the ball wherever you want. However, you're, if you're tossing high, like you see Cleveno, like the, probably one of the best left sides of the world right now is hybrid is tossed even with a, like quite a bit of a high toss. Like usually you see hybrids like being a lower toss and to stop the spin. Um, so that's probably the step one. You're going to miss probably 80 percent of them. That's fine. But at some point you'll catch, you'll catch it. You'll try to, you'll understand how to stop that spin. And after that, there's the deceptive part where it's like, once you've mastered kind of the spin and the float on the same toss is how can you approach exactly the same way all the time? Um, because if, if like, there's a lot of times where you can tell someone's going to hire it. So you step up a little bit. So the ball doesn't drop too earlier and stuff like that. So if people can't tell that you're floating, that's going to be deadly, especially because a lot of the men's game is a lot of hand passing on filters. So for me, the number one thing that I remember, I started. Hybrid serving in 2015, 16, after the Rio or before Rio Olympics. And, uh, and it was so efficient because there was, it wasn't super popular back then and people would just walk up to the three meters a night to receive floats. And I remember back then I would like hours, hours of just practicing that hybrid, hybrid, hybrid, hybrid, because it was, it's pretty easy to spin on a spin toss, obviously, because that's why you serve, or that's why you toss spin, but practicing that just to make sure that it floats will get you a lot of bases, no matter what. And I think that's the biggest part of the hybrid serve.

Mathias

I remember you, you were helping me with mine, one of the summers, and you were talking about how you don't actually need to hit the ball that hard when you're changing the spin because your body's already moving so fast. If you're preparing for a spin serve, that is like just changing the spin from like spinning to floating is usually enough to get to hit a decent serve. And then it's just finding the angle.

Nick

And there's sometimes where like, you'll hit it, like, it's really hard to control, especially because you have, you want to have that aggressive approach as if you were going to have a service Spencer, right? And you'll have some balls where like, you'll just tap it and it'll fly out, which is fine. Like, that's how you got to like, kind of just get reps in. And there's some other ones where you like hit it and it's going to drop like four meters and it's an ace because those balls are like impossible to pass. Unless you're Kevin Tilley. Well,

Jesse

that, that, uh, I, I remember two summers ago, you were helping with helping me with my hybrid serve. And the biggest thing you were saying is you still have to hit it. At extension, you know, like I was bringing my arm down one, so it's way too easy to read and two, you lose all kinds of velocity and, and, um, um, controllability basically,

Nick

especially because if, if you hit it, that you're in front or it's going to be over the net or it'll, it'll fly out. Cause if you've hit in the front, you'll have to like hit it up, which people can tell, okay, it's a hybrid. And then you lose that kind of. Deceptive quality of it. And if you hit it up and you have quite a, quite a bit of risk to like, just, it just keeps going out with the velocity of your approach. So yeah, if, if, if you hit it at that height and you give it that like a tap, you don't even have to like hit it that much, it'll go over the net and just that, if you can get that consistently, you'll, you'll put people in a lot of trouble and then. And then you can work on angles and stuff.

Mathias

Oh yeah. Alright.

Oog

Dude. I know, I just, I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I have Lyft in nine minutes, so I have to run. Okay. Alright, dude. But, I just wanted to say, thanks, Nick. And, uh, awesome. Okay. See ya, boys. When I see ya. See ya, cool. Alright, peace, bro.

Nick

See ya, man.

Mathias

Alright, just Two more, two more questions here. Um, one of the summers we were playing together after practice, I wanted to go and get some spiking reps cause I was new to the left side and, uh, I wasn't very good at spiking at the time and I was all excited to get out there and you. You told me, I don't know exactly what you said, but you said, don't do the extra reps today and, uh, accepted your advice and, and didn't do it. But I'm wondering, uh, why?

Nick

So there was, it's, as I, as I said before, I think it's very situational. Um, we probably had two practices the next day. Um, and it was after a two and a half hour practice and the quality of those reps probably wouldn't have been the best. Reps are good when they're quality. Like there's a, there's a time and place for a thousand reps, but there's also, um, a time and place for like 10 reps of really, really high quality. So if, if the plan of the coach and like the, the, the schedule of the next two weeks is to burn out the guys and make them perform at a high level, despite being tired, then yes, sure. Go out there and try to get some reps in, but that's a different story that then if you're just like not happy with your practice and you're going out there after two and a half hours of six on six and trying to hit balls.

Mathias

Yeah, so that's kind of my opinion. That makes a lot of sense to me because now that I think back to it, actually, that was probably week one of VNL. We probably were playing like a day or two later. That's not the time. And then I remember we were in France. Uh, later in that summer and we would just do reps and reps and reps and reps because at that time that was like you were saying that the game plan was to burn us out and like build some capacity. Yeah, and we have a, we have a concept that we keep coming back to on the podcast called the 20 mile march. And, um, it's basically. The story of two explorers that were trying to get to the South pole. One, one group would go as far as they could every day, depending on the weather. It would be like really fun, good days. And sometimes they wouldn't go at all. If it was a bad day. And the other group was just 20 miles every single day. The 20 mile group made it there and back and they all survived. And I think almost everyone died in the group that would go based off of the weather. And so I think the overarching idea is like, No more, no less. Like once you've got your work in for the day. That's when you shut it down. There's no need to push beyond that, but you have to make sure that you get to that appropriate level. And I think the 20 miles for that time, right before V& O was two and a half hours of six on six practice. That's what was required of that day. So that's, I didn't need to do any more than that. It would have been hurting me. Whereas at time in France, when we were trying to build some capacity, the 20 miles was the practice plus some reps. And that was the required work for that time. So, um, now that I'm older, I'm a little

Nick

wiser. I understand. Another thing that I got to talk about a bit is like. Especially on the national team, trust the staff. They're very competent people. So if they push you to do more reps, trust them that they have a plan. They're not just telling you to get reps, to get reps. They're like, they have a very set plan about strengthening or billing capacity, as you said, they always have a plan and there's, they work hard behind. Behind the scenes. You don't really know or see them much, or you see them, but I mean, what they do behind the scene, they don't, they're not just at the gym, pushing you to lift or play volleyball. They're there. They do a lot of work behind the scenes. So it might be different for pros out for proteins and stuff, but on the national team, trust that. Really, really good group of people in the background that's doing a lot of work. So that's also part of it is like, if the coach tells you, yeah, get a couple of reps. And if it's just 10 balls, great. If you can do 50, great. But if they tell you, no, you should stop. Then that probably means they have, it's not just that they want to say no, they probably have something in mind. There's a reason why they want you to stop.

Mathias

That's that's a great, great point. And also I found asking questions is awesome because then you can actually learn what. Is happening, why they're trying to do that. Um, cause yeah, usually there's, there's a really solid reason, but it's just like, if you just leave and accept it and you never find out, then

Nick

I think asking questions is great. Like, why are we doing this? Why? Okay. Like gotta be careful not to abuse that either. But like, is there a reason why we're doing four sets instead of six today? Oh yes. Because like, so that's usually how you learn, even though you don't want to be a strength coach. Like that's maybe eventually it'll. It'll be valuable for you to know why certain things happen a certain way.

Mathias

Alrighty. Last question. If you could give your younger self some advice, What would you have told yourself about volleyball, about life, about competition that you think would have been valuable?

Nick

I wish I was, I probably would have said, uh, Humilty is more important than you think. I was not a humble person back then, or especially on the court. I mean, back then my life was volleyball, but, um, humility will get you far. It's probably one of the biggest things I've learned throughout my career. And as I got more humble, as My life went on. there was a lot of more opportunities that presented themselves. It's short, but I'm sure I could, I could think about more, but I think that's, that's a big one. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of trust in people that are humble

Jesse

Um, I think, I think that's a fantastic answer. I don't, I don't think it has to be any longer than that. I think that's really powerful. It brought me

Nick

very far. So, yeah.

Mathias

Awesome. Alrighty. Thanks for coming on, Nick. That was great. Thanks

Nick

It was a pleasure. That was fun.

Mathias

Yeah. Miss you guys. Yeah. I miss you too, man. Alrighty. That wraps up episode number 30 of the pitch pro podcast. Thanks everyone for listening and signing off. See you, Nick.

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