Episode #16 - Setting with Brett Walsh

In this episode with Brett Walsh – AN OLYMPIAN –  we talk about all things setting. Brett’s ability to be a positive influence whether he is on the court or not helped him, through many ups and downs in his career, earn a spot in the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. We talk about growing up with Dads who played on the national team, what separates great setters from good setters, and how to instill patience in yourself and those around you. We discuss the benefits of track and field training for aspiring setters, whether or not focusing on tactics at a young age is beneficial, and everything in between.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the pit pro podcast. In today's episode, we are joined by Brett Walsh. Brett has played in some of the biggest professional leagues in the world, including Italy, France, and Turkey. He's a two time national champion at the youth sports level and has represented Canada in some of the world's biggest competitions, including the 2024 Olympics in Paris. Expect to learn how Brett has been able to have a positive influence on his teammates, whether he's on the court or not. The core values which have led him through times of struggle, what separates the good setters from the great setters, and why tactics should take a backseat in a setter's development. Brett's patience, consistency, and curious mind are all things we can learn from. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Brett Walsh. Hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Mathias 1:00

Welcome to the show, Brett.

Brett 1:02

Thanks boys.

Jesse 1:03

Thanks for having me on. Man, this is awesome. It's so good to have you. I know you, uh, have been a hero of sorts to TS in the setting world and you've been a really good friend of the family and to us and a really good teammates. We're pumped to have you on. Um, I think we just kind of want to start this thing by talking to you about your upbringing. I know your dad played for the national team for a long time. Have you always been a setter? Where did you start? How did you start? Why did you start? Um, and we'll kind of start there. Sweet.

Brett 1:35

Yeah. Well, thanks. Uh, appreciate you guys saying that. We've obviously known each other a very long time. I was thinking last time, uh, one of the last times we were all here together, I think Ugo was still in diapers, to be honest with you. He still is. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. So it wasn't that long ago then. Um, but, uh, yeah, so I got into volleyball because, I mean, both my Played volleyball. So, and then my sister's two years older than me, she was playing club. Um, so I was just like always in the gym as a young kid around the volley dome. Um, I don't know how many hours I spent in that place, but so many. but it was like the first sport that I just absolutely fell in love with. And it wasn't just because my, my parents and my sister and stuff played, um, that got me in the gym, but then it was just, as soon as I was around the gym and Around a volleyball. It just like clicked with me that this is what I love to do more than anything else. Um, yeah. So then I started golf. Yeah. As I was saying that I felt a little bit like that was untrue. I was pretty in love with golf at the time too, but I say that because At the time I had been playing golf and like playing golf competitively for most summers up until like I was 13 or 14 when volleyball kind of took over and at that time I remember it being a super obvious choice to me that volleyball was what I wanted to do. So I loved golf when volleyball was in the mix and I kind of had to pick between the two. It was just so clear in my mind that volleyball is what I wanted to do. So it was like on another level of love. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that's a good point. I do. I did love golf and I still love golf, obviously, but volleyball, as soon as I got the bug, it was, it was pretty clear to me that that's what I wanted to do. Um,

Mathias 3:38

on our, on our last episode, we talked a little bit about the dynamic between the three of us growing up. And kind of the different pressures of being in the different levels of birth order and your sister's older than you. And she was playing, did you ever feel, I guess, from your, from your parents to, did you ever feel pressure to, um, get to that level or were you just inspired, what do you think about, um, having those people going ahead of you in your own family?

Brett 4:08

I don't really remember feeling any pressure necessarily. I think it was like. My, of course, my sister was ahead of me playing club volleyball and it just looked like so fun and I just spent so much time around like her team and practices and stuff and helping out. And, and so I was really excited, um, watching that and then knowing that in a year or two, when I would start that, that would be kind of me on a team with my buddies and stuff. And then like my parents, knowing that they both played in university and then overseas, and my dad played for the national team for a number of years, I think they did. Like a really good job of just instilling just like love and joy for the game in me and not any expectation of, of where I might end up playing it. I don't remember any conversations ever being had. Um, when I was young with them about, you know, if you do X, Y, and Z, then, then you will be able to play for the national team like your dad did, or play overseas like your parents did. And, um, it was more just like, do you want to play volleyball? Yes. Okay. Then, then work hard at it. Do it well, make sure you're having fun with it. If it's ever not fun, then do something else. And so I'm pretty impressed with that now living the kind of life that they lived around my age. Um, having not tried to like push that on me, but let me. Kind of come to volleyball in my own way.

Jesse 5:42

That's cool. That's cool. And obviously your dad played a huge role in, in your development. Um, and I remember, I think it was the national team summer that Ben was the coach and we were doing a, a Jersey, like, Basically, and we had to just say a couple of words about what it meant or how we felt or whatever. And I remember you saying something, you chose number eight because of your dad. Is that correct? Am I remembering that correctly?

Brett 6:09

Yeah, that's right. He was number eight on the national team for, yeah, I

Jesse 6:12

remember, I remember that was pretty powerful. Just seeing you and hearing you talk about how you want to be number eight because of your dad and your dad had. Paved the way kind of for you in a sense. And I thought that was super, super powerful. I really, really appreciated watching you talk about that.

Brett 6:29

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, you guys obviously know him super well too, so it would be a little bit like more of a personal connection to that, but, um, yeah, like he, there was always a drawer tucked away in like the bottom, like furnace room of our house full of his old national team jerseys, which also speaks, I think to like his kind of humility and not wanting to. Make a big deal of himself. Um, When I was growing up, so like I kind of had to find them myself, but like came upon this drawer, absolutely full of uniforms and they were all number eight with Walsh on it and the Canada flag on it and stuff. And so when I was young, I would just wear those like every opportunity I got either around the house or to practice or like to school. I was just rocking around with the Walsh number eight Jersey. And then, so as long as I like this, I got when I was 16, my first time with the national team. It's Jersey that TS is wearing is he got the number eight on it. And then from that point on, I wasn't number eight until that summer that you're talking about. Um, cause I was on the, like lower down on the world league roster. So you get slapped with like number 21 or whatever for a couple of years. Now you can be whatever number you want up to, up to whatever, but you were just kind of like, whatever. slot on the roster you were, you got given that number. So it was a number of years until number eight, but freed up. And when I got it, it was pretty exciting. Yeah, that's cool. Can

Jesse 7:49

you explain a little bit about why you gave Tias that Jersey? No,

Brett 7:56

I don't really remember. Well, no, I, I mean, I, uh, well, like I said, I've known you guys forever, like we grew up as very young kids cause our dads obviously played together and, and just as, you know, living close by. Um, and, uh, it was like number like a couple of years older than you guys, obviously, and TS was an up and coming. Setter and Calgary that, and I've worked like had worked with all you guys coaching you from young ages. Um, and then, yeah, I thought I had been given some jerseys from older guys that I looked up to, um, when I was like a similar age to that. And, um, I remember thinking that was really cool. So I had that one on hand and TS and I had done a session, uh, like a, I coached him in a setting session or something a couple of years ago. And I thought he, he may, uh, he may want to have that Jersey. Was that right?

Mathias 8:52

Yeah,

Brett 8:53

yeah,

Mathias 8:53

that's a good gift. That's for sure. okay, so, I'm coaching a bunch of kids right now, um, over the summer, and a lot of them are really, really stressed out. About making their club team for the next year. And they do open gyms in the summer. They work all summer long and then they get an offer to maybe be on the team or not. And I think that that's pretty young age to have that kind of stress. But you had, I think some, ups and downs, especially with the national team over the last, even until recently, um, just when things don't go your way. And you're able to stay focused and continue to work and resulted in you going to the Olympics in Paris this summer. So I want to know about some of those times where, where you're maybe at a low point and things didn't work out your way. What was your mindset and how did that make you a better person, better player today?

Brett 9:51

Yeah, those things are all, um, like always a part of every athlete's journey. I think there's very few athletes that, have a seemingly easy road to the top of their sport and then are able to stay there and, You know, so most athletes are going to be faced with times that are character defining, career defining, where you kind of have a choice of how you respond. Um, for me, the first time that really happened for me was I got cut two years in a row from the junior national team. And that was a pretty big, like slap in the face. I thought I was very much in the mix of, of that group of guys, my age, and that I, that I deserve to be on the team. Um, and I remember my mindset after that was, it was very clear. To me that my goal then was to be, um, so good, my position at, at volleyball that they just couldn't say no to be the next time. And I remember having conversations with my dad about it and that was a big thing that we kind of arrived at through those conversations was like, if you're good enough, you will be on the team. Like if you, it's, it's really as simple as that. And so get so good they have no choice but to put you on the team. And so. I like that because it strips away any excuses and any, any feelings of like injustice or being wronged or whatever. It's like, no, make it very black and white. If you didn't make the team, it's because you weren't good enough. So if you want to be on the team, you got to be better. And so if you really want to be on the team, then get so good. They have no choice, but to put you on the team. And then like, when you have that kind of mindset in place, it's Then it becomes more granular of like working through the process of, okay, how do I get that good? That's, you know, that's a good objective, but of course then you got to break it down and, and get good. So there was a couple of things like for me, the feedback that I got from the junior national team was that I had to get like much stronger, faster, um, like more athletic. And then just from like a setting standpoint, I had to like understand the game better and take like appropriate risk and just like largely like. Experience things that, you know, come with time. But anyway, so I took those things away and like started to get way more serious about like the weight room and, um, took a summer after my first year. I did like cross training. Um, I joined like a track and field like training group for the summer, basically. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, um,'cause FASTER was a really big one. Like I had to get a lot faster with my feet. So I was like, okay. Who's fast runners? Like track runners. Okay. And the athletic director at my, at Scarlet Kim Cousins, if you guys know Kim. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She's like a big time track coach. And so she works with tons of like track athletes in Calgary. So. I approached her and said, can you train me for the summer? I want to get fast and strong. And she was like, yeah, absolutely. So she trained me and I babysat her kids. That was the, uh, that was the agreement. And so I was getting up like super early, most, most days, all summer and going to the Scarlet weight room and like doing. Just absolute grinder workouts, like just dying. And then we go to the track, like Glenmore track. And I would just get absolutely dusted by all these track runners, but it was good. It was like, I was, you know, accomplishing. Yeah, the objectives that I had to if I wanted to respond well to the feedback I got. Yeah, and then and then through like playing Um, a year of university that got my volleyball way more up to speed relative to the international game So that was just timing wise like exposed to the game and I ended up playing a lot in my first year and then my second year I was on the court all year and so I just like Amassed a lot of volleyball experience at, uh, at a much higher level than I played up until that point. And then that matched with like more physicality. Um, and then I ended up making the, the B team that, uh, that next summer. And, um, so to sum up, like that was my response was okay. I felt I probably should have been on that team, but obviously I wasn't good enough. So the next time I get that opportunity, I'm going to make sure they literally can't say no to me. Mhm. And then, yeah, since then I've been like very much in and out of the, like A team, like A team to B team, um, back and forth kind of from like 2017 on. And that has been, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, trade any of it. Like, but it's been challenging for sure. Like once you get up to the A team and kind of get a taste of that, it's like, it's tough to then. Go back to the B team or the next gen team now, and then, you know, get called back up and get another opportunity and then back to the next gen team and then back up and forth. So you'd much rather, once you get there, stay there permanently. You, you don't want to get COVID in Mexico. You know, I do remember that trip fondly. Was that my first choice of where I wanted to be at the time? Maybe not, but I'm glad we, we, we had that tournament together for sure. Um, basically What I have learned, like, I always feel much better about myself if I live by, like, specific principles rather than trying to achieve specific outcomes. And that's taken me, I think, a long, not a long time, but become more clear to me through these years of national team where I've been in those positions where I could be just really disappointed and frustrated and, and let my own kind of issues and ego get in the way of, of the team, basically. But for me, like, I've always prioritized being the best teammate possible on whatever team I'm on, whether it's the A team or the B team. When I was young, like, with the A team, it would be, you know, when I was hardly ever touching the court, I'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna make sure. All the laundry's always folded for the guys. And I'm going to like take care of all those little small details so that like the guys that are on the court and bearing that responsibility of having to perform well all the time for the team, like don't have to worry about stuff. And then like in practice, I'm going to be, you know, pushing guys and just like super energetic to make, and like sensitive to the energy in the gym so that, you know, we, if the team needs a boost, I can be that guy. If the team needs to calm down a little bit, I can be that guy. And just trying to make myself valuable in ways. Whatever ways I see that the team needs, um, if I'm not really being called upon to perform in a, in a match so that others can, you know, shine when, when the team needs them to. And then, you know, as I went up and down, I think, I think those things get noticed and become a part of your like identity and your character. And like, I've been pretty much a second center on the A team for any time with. Like my A team experience. I've never really been the starter except for one summer when TJ and Jay were both injured, I played like the whole summer as the starting setter. Um, so that's kind of been my role over time with the A team is like kind of utility guy that, you know, Keeps things in line and, you know, a leader from within instead of like always the one on the court volleyball wise. And so I think I've tried to go all in on whatever my role is at the time and do it based on like my values and principles, if that makes sense.

Jesse 18:31

Yeah, for sure. And then it probably helps you when you are in that starting position, when you're overseas, you have both perspectives. You have the starting perspective, you have the. I'm going to keep the team together perspective and then you put it all into one and then you're this fantastic setter, leader, teammate, captain guy, you know, the Olympic teammate.

Brett 18:54

Thanks. Yeah, I think that's true. Actually, that's a good point. Like, I do think that my experience being in those roles does give me a lot more understanding and empathy for. For guys that maybe aren't playing that want to be playing. Um, and I think it does help me now as a little bit of an older guy, like help other guys through those situations and, and share some of my experience in them and, and what has worked for me and stuff. I think had I never been in that situation, I think it would be a lot harder for me to, to relate to guys going through that.

Jesse 19:27

That's actually really huge. Cause I remember. Uh, the year that I had my back surgery, I was sitting on the bench, obviously, and halfway through the season, I had written down a list of things I wasn't going to do, or wasn't going to take for granted when I got back on the court. And one of them was don't ignore the guys on the bench during timeouts. So I remember guys would come off from a timeout and I would want to talk, I want to give high fives, and they would just sit down. I'm like, I'm not going to do that because now I understand. The position there, and I understand the perspective. Um, so I resonate a lot with that. My question, though, was going to be for you. Um, you said you got cut from the June team, and you weren't good enough. Was that leadership perspective and the teammate perspective? Did you have to learn that and implement that? Or do you always had that? And it was just the skills that were

Brett 20:20

No, I think I've always been a pretty natural leader. I've always enjoyed being in a leadership position on, on whatever team I'm on. And I think I've always naturally gravitated toward that, like even on provincial teams, even as a younger player on the team, often I would end up, you know, kind of in a captaincy role of sorts, or, you know, being a leader. And so I think I always have valued that and come by that pretty naturally, I would say. Um, and like the national team tryouts, being a leader doesn't necessarily at the time, like it's maybe a little bit different now where the team is maybe a little like more selected as, as opposed to like an open tryout, but the time is, is just like four days of like 60 athletes that are, you're effectively just being evaluated on volleyball. Like if you're a very noticeable leader and stuff, and you're good at volleyball, that'll obviously help you. But if you don't necessarily have the. Same level of volleyball as somebody else. Like that's way more important in that environment, in that very short timeframe of ability to evaluate, evaluate athletes for the future of volleyball. So, yeah, I don't, I don't think those characteristics necessarily were that helpful to me in the tryout specifically. So I would say that it was just like volleyball and, and. Like athleticism based at the time.

Mathias 21:47

Uh, you said that you've learned to live by principles instead of results. I'm sure that's probably on and off the court. I'm wondering what those are. If you can articulate those. Cause I love hearing about that stuff. Just kind of basic ideas on how you want to be as a, as a person as you go about. Living essentially.

Brett 22:08

Um, I think the number one, I think for me is, um, just kindness. I think being kind to everybody as much as possible. There's of course, nobody's perfect. And, and myself included, like there's times where I wish I had been more kind in an interaction. And that's a big one. I think if, if I feel as though I've treated everybody with kindness and fairness and, you know, and with that, I think comes really intentionally trying not to put people down. And, um, so I think those are my, honestly, like main guiding values of trying to interact positively with anybody I come across. Um, and that doesn't always mean being, you know, super bubbly or like fake or anything like that. Like sometimes being kind means being honest and, and being candid with somebody. Um, but I think doing things that, you know, are for the right reasons is how I try to try to approach those situations. And, and then. Honesty, I think is a really big one, kindness and honesty. And then I would say, no, I think those are the main ones to be honest. Like, I don't think I have many other huge guiding principles other than trying to treat people with respect, treat people with kindness, be honest, and just try to have a positive influence on people. And I think a big part of that is understanding that like everybody is. Always going through something like how many times do you have, you know, say something to someone and then you find out later that they were going through something crazy that day or they just lost their mom or something ridiculous and you're like, Oh man, like I was so short with that person because, you know, they were obviously going through something emotionally in that, you know, So it bothered me. And so I snapped at them and you're like, Oh, I wish I didn't do that. And like, there's always something like that going on with people. So I think if you can just like bear those things in mind and give people a lot of patience and kindness, patience, I think is actually probably another big value, both on and off the court. Like there's, it's always worth it to me to like, take the split second to, to be patient with your reaction to something. And give yourself an opportunity to actually evaluate what's going on in the situation before reacting. And so many times you'll probably choose not to react the way you would have in the moment.

Jesse 25:09

That's really cool that you said that because the last episode we talked about you before, uh, before you even agreed to come on this episode. And we were talking about how, using your words, when we watch you do reps, you're so patient with yourself. You're so consistent. Your demeanor is. So calculated and your, or I guess your emotions are so calculated. So it's cool that you, you, that's one of your core principles is being patient with others'cause it's evidently you're also patient with yourself. That's probably why it makes you such a great, consistent setter and why people love playing with you.'cause you're patient with yourself, you're patient with your team. You're probably patient with your coaches as well. Um, and I guess now that we were going to kind of shift more into the setting part of the episode, maybe you can talk about how setting reps and the patients it takes to get to where you are, uh, is so important,

Brett 26:06

Yeah, I think it's huge. Like setting is such a technical, I mean, most of volleyball is technical, but I would argue that setting is probably the most technical component of volleyball. Um, because you, you end up. Setting so many balls relative to how many, how many times other positions like perform their skill. And so there's just way less margin for error and way more opportunity for error. Um, basically with setting, I think patience is important because it takes so long to get really good at it. And you have to set just like thousands and thousands and thousands of balls. And you have to be very patient with the results of those sets, because as you're making technical changes, most of those sets, if you're, especially as a young athlete, if you're trying Making appropriate growth. You should be pretty uncomfortable with the technique you're working on most of the time. Your coaches should be putting you in a, putting you in a position where you feel like whatever movement you're learning feels a little bit foreign. And that will result in like a lot of inconsistency in the output of your set.

Jesse 27:29

I have a quick question. When does that stop? Like, do you still experience that feeling of foreign movement or not so much?

Brett 27:37

On very, like, a lot smaller levels. Like, I'm always, like, tweaking little things now for probably the last, like, five, six, seven years. Can you give

Jesse 27:50

us a specific example?

Brett 27:52

Yeah, like, right now, for example, like, I'm trying to take the ball higher above my head, like, less out in front of me. That's something I realized I think is going to be beneficial for me and like having my hips more under my shoulders. I think traditionally I've had a pretty forward posture for setting, um, where my shoulders are a little bit ahead of my hips and then my hands are like a little bit in front of me and that's. Good in certain situations and like a tool to be used. Um, but as I watch more and more, like of the best setters in the world, most of them are in a very kind of vertical hips underneath the shoulders and, and ball pretty neutral above their head position most of the time. And I would say my default has been more leaning forward than a lot of them. Um, and so doing that feels super weird, like having my hips more under me and then taking the ball right above me feels like I'm like leaning backwards, even though I'm not, so it feels pretty uncomfortable. And then like trying to figure out how to locate the ball from that position impacts the location of the set for a while now, like my touch on the ball. I've set so many balls that I can like. figure out how to set a good ball from that position pretty quickly, but it still feels pretty foreign.

Mathias 29:13

Like, again, back to all my coaching. So I'm teaching these kids everything that I am still working on and it's like Within probably two or three sessions, I can tell them pretty much everything I know about how to set the ball. And then for the next 20 years of their life, they're just going to be working on that So I think that that patience is, is huge and they can, they can set a ball at 14, just as perfect as you can set a ball right now, um, which I think is the cool thing about setting. Is that it's not, there's definitely athleticism and physicality and stuff, but it's such a precision motion Um, if you're gonna just go into a session and teach someone basic technique, what are, maybe, Three or four basic principles that you think all setters should start to apply from the time they're 14 that that don't change

Jesse 30:13

Sorry to add on to this question. I would also love to hear where you got these from I just love hearing about which coaches or which people taught you these two or if it was yourself or whatever.

Brett 30:22

Yeah Yeah, I think if I go to a into a gym and I'm working with Kids that like have never worked with before, for example, for the first time, it always starts from the ground up is all skills in volleyball, but setting specifically is like, if you want. a good technical outcome, your feet have to be in the right position, first of all. And so some setters like to, like, finish with a left right finish. Some like to finish with a right left finish. I don't really have a strong opinion on, on that. I would say I was taught to finish, um, right left most of the time. But when I watch myself play, I'll often finish left right too. Like if it's a little bit faster pass or something, you just kind of, your feet just go where they have to, but as long as they're. In the right position and you're transferring energy through the ball in as linear of a direction as possible, um, towards your target, then that's the most important thing. But so I think Brock always taught me about, um, being in a cylinder, he would call it. And so, Imagining you get under the ball, whether you're standing or you're jump setting. And then there's a cylinder around you. When you're setting the ball, you want to be like in that cylinder. So that means not jumping left to right, not jumping so far front to back, not jumping front to back or back to front too much, like get yourself under the ball so that you can be pretty vertical in your setting, um, skill. and then my dad. Always taught getting your hands up early, but slowly. That was like absolutely drilled into me and probably any athlete that's ever been coached by my dad would.

Jesse 32:22

I think I've mentioned that on the podcast before. Early and slow.

Brett 32:25

Early and slowly, slowly, but early, slowly, but early. Yeah. And that's honestly like huge. So you want to have your hands up early enough, but not with tension in them. So that's where the slowly part comes up. So you gotta bring them up slowly. But early, but early, slowly, but early, because yeah, if you bring your hands up super fast before you set the ball, then your upper body muscles are super tight. And then you lose all finesse in the ball. And that's what most athletes do, especially young ones, because they don't have much muscle. Power is you feel like you have to bring your hands up late to almost attack the ball with your hands to get the ball where it needs to go. And they're simply not leveraging.

Jesse 33:18

Yeah,

Brett 33:20

exactly. And they're simply not leveraging like their lower body, which is where all the power comes from in setting the ball. Even a young kid, if you, if you get there to understand, like power comes from your legs, and it's all about just the timing of that energy transfer, they can set the ball so much further than they think they can. And so it's all about that and then figuring out how to time all those movements over, over a long period of time, which takes forever. So I think getting your feet properly under the ball, coming from behind the ball a little bit, so you have a little bit of forward energy into the ball, and then. Bring your hands up slowly, but early. And then, for me, like, finishing very intentionally towards the target is really important. And then, holding your finish, and then having symmetry in your hands is something my dad always talked about too. Because you see so many setters, like, just trying to push the ball so hard that the hands end up finishing in, like, completely opposite directions. And so that's when you get like spin on the ball or like the ball off axis and going in weird places. But if you're very intentional about finishing to the target with symmetry in your hands, like they look like a mirror image of each other, the likelihood of the ball going in a good direction is so much higher. It's like in golf. Like for me, if I remember to no matter how I hit the ball, like no matter where it goes off the club face, just completely finished my swing and follow through fully, I hit, I hit it so much better. And so it's not like, it's not like the. The follow through is impacting the flight of the ball. That's already been hit, but something about like intentionally finishing and, and committing 100 percent to that. Action like does something beforehand that impacts the quality of the contact.

Jesse 35:14

Yeah. Well, it's the same thing when you tell someone to slow down their arm swing or hit like a 50 percent roll shot, their arms swing completely changes in this elbow drops. And

Brett 35:22

then it's like, what are you

Jesse 35:23

doing? Yeah, exactly. It was the same thing. If you follow through, you do a same arm swing with your hips and your shoulders and stuff, and you follow through just at. Less speed. So it's the same thing, I think. So I think that you're, you're onto something there, but I don't think that's volume or setting specific. Yeah, I agree. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So those are probably the main things. Yeah. Really cool. I mean, you kind of touched on it with your, with the feet, but do you think there's something that people think is very important to setting that actually isn't? Tactics. Interesting. Elaborate. From

Brett 36:00

a young, for young setters. Right. Becomes extremely important as you get older. But tactics don't matter if you can't set a good ball. And so, I go, you know. I've coached tons of young kids in Calgary, and inevitably their parents or their coaches will come up to me and start asking me questions about tactics and looking at the block and beating the block and running an offense. And they're like 15, 16 year old kids that can't set the ball in the same place twice. And of course I'll like indulge them. And, you know, talk about some concepts and stuff, but it's. Always about, I'll always circle back and say, but 99 percent of any focus and energy should be on proper technique and just setting as many balls as possible so that you can actually start to think about tactics because you can't think about tactics if you have to be worrying about where your feet are going and bringing your hands up in the right position and then setting a good ball. Like those all have to come beforehand and you can set. Like tactics become, if you set really, really good balls everywhere, your, your likelihood of winning a game, no matter who you set is still really good. Yeah.

Jesse 37:17

Way

Brett 37:17

better than if you're a tactical genius setting, terrible sets.

Jesse 37:20

For sure. For sure. Yeah. I'm going to overload this three gap, but it's going to be two

Mathias 37:24

feet too

Jesse 37:24

low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mathias 37:25

I remember. That feeling too, when I was, when I was coming up as a setter, I couldn't for the life of me Comprehend how to run an offense or I didn't feel like I was in control of a match or even my decisions until Probably even my last year at university. I think that was the first time where I thought through every play and what I was going to do and why. Um, and before that, I always thought like, maybe this isn't for me because I can't, I don't understand how what I'm doing impacts the blockers or whatever. Um, but yeah, it just takes so long, I think, to get to that level, um, where you feel comfortable in your technique. And as a hitter too, you'd rather a double block and a perfect set than like, Some trash you got a tip one on one. Also just just for the general feel of your team when your guys are just Cranking on every single ball you give them. It just feels so good For you as a setter and for the feel of the team Speaking of hitters, what are some of the characteristics of your favorite hitters to set or the best hitters that you've, you've played with? How can they be the setters dream

Brett 38:59

I think it's so much about. Like in a hitters ability to fix bad sets, of course. Um, that's obvious, but for me, it's like the hitters that pay the closest attention to like small details that you as a setter are giving them. or the situation unfolding. I think you and I talked about this a little bit this year. It was like, you can get so much information about what's about to happen if you actually pay close attention. Like if you see me as your setter falling back just a little bit because the pass is rushed the set's probably going to be a little bit inside. And so you can already start like prepare for that and get on the ball faster. But it appears to me That most hitters, particularly at younger ages, but even internationally national team pro, like don't really pay close attention to the situation. And just kind of expect the ball to arrive where it's supposed to go. And then if it's not there, then it's like, Oh, I got to go deal with that. And it ends up not putting them in a position to, to dictate what happens on their hit. Whereas I think the best hitters pay such close attention that they can kind of anticipate exactly what's going to happen at any given time, and then be fraction of a second earlier on the ball. And already have like prepared their mind and their body to do something good with it instead of just having to react to that ball after they've kind of read where it's gone. So I think that's huge. Like, just like, for example, I remember talking to one guy on my team this year where we were in practice and um, Middles were setting balls for hitters. Like it was a down ball drill pass in the middle sets. And you can see when a middle setting, all the hitters instantly are paying such close attention to like where their body position and where the ball might end up because they know it's not going to be good. It's like, no offense to middles, not as good. It's going to be a little bit less predictable where it's going to go. If you really pay attention to the middle's body position and the type of pass that's coming up, like you can get a pretty good beat on where it's going to go. And you could see guys just like eyes wide, like just ready to go anywhere. And then their footwork was so good getting to the ball, like getting under it. And then as soon as the setters gets in, everyone just kind of like waits there. It waits for the perfect ball to come. And if it's not perfect, then it's like, you know, launch into a conversation about, you know, that should have been higher or faster or whatever, which is important. If you, if hitters pay a little bit closer attention to the situation. And actually start to understand, like, the types of errors their setters usually make. Like, maybe your setter always leaves a little bit inside. Okay, you can talk to them about trying to push it out and work on that together, but you can be pretty sure that most of the time the ball is going to be a little bit inside, so why not adjust to that and then make something better of it? And so, I think those things make a setter's life so much easier if hitters have that awareness.

Jesse 42:27

That's really cool. Like, having that situational awareness. And I think, too, that's why not uh, being position specific when you're younger is so beneficial. Like, experimenting with different positions, experimenting with different whatever skills and stuff. And I remember like, even what my setting career lasted like two months. The, the year that Derek was sick, but I was astounded how easy it was to run middle at like two meters, two and a half meters. Like I don't have to pass the ball perfect, perfect on the net because I can run the middle anywhere in this attack line. And it just gave me so much freedom, but I'm, but just experimenting with that with different positions and then understanding how it affects the rest of the team. I think is really, really cool. I think that's a really. Cool point, a cool observation you made about the middles, because I, for sure, am the same. When we're in practice, I'm spiking, I got a middle, I'm like, oh boy, where is this going, where is this going, I'm so dialed. I have Tia setting, I'm like, alright, you know, come to me, I'll spike it down the line, it'll be perfect.

Mathias 43:30

Yeah, and I think each, each attacker, when I was setting each attacker had their own persona, almost and it's, that's based off like the level of confidence that there will be a positive result after it leaves my hands, no matter what the quality of set. And I think it was my level of confidence. Good, really good. Yeah, because I think that's, I mean, volleyball is like an error, error based game, um, and limiting those errors is often one of the quickest paths to a win. Um, and so sometimes you'll have a guy where you set him the ball and. It's like 50 50 if it's gonna go well or not and then there's other guys where you can just sling it somewhere to their zone and you know that No matter what the quality of that set is something good is gonna happen. They're gonna score. Well, it's gonna come back They're gonna take the setter out something like that So I think thinking about what kind of confidence you give your setter to give you the ball Is a good one for hitters Okay, let's let's get into some uh, some more tactical stuff here. I mean, I guess we already talked about that running an offense comes after the quality of the set, but what is going through your mind when you're sitting in serve receive? What are you looking at? What are you thinking?

Brett 45:00

Um, obviously it's like pretty Pretty contextually match dependent situational, but I think general principles wise, you're often first looking at matchups, um, you know, who is their weak blocker and then how does that match up against whoever is my hitter against them in that certain situation? Um, so if there's, but I think that usually applies mostly when there's one really obvious matchup to exploit, like a really small setter or a really short left side or something like that where the decision probably just becomes set the ball in their zone and then just let set as good a ball as possible and then let your hitter do their job. Um, But I would say most of the time, I'm thinking often about what their middles are doing, if they're reading or if they're committing, and then what kind of help is coming from, from the outside and that will dictate kind of, if I'm going to set a middle ball, um, where I run it, do I run it away from where the, if there's big help, but they're reading. Then I'll probably like on one side, then I'll probably try and set the middle because the middle is reading, but try and run it away from where there's big help. Um, or if there's really big help somewhere, I'll bring the middle into that zone and then set, um, the hitter on the outside of away from that help blocker to create some space. And then I'm also thinking about distribution on my own side and making sure. that, um, people are involved as much as possible. Um, I mean, there will be times where the flow of the game dictates that someone doesn't get a set for an, like a ball for an entire set. Um, and that's something also that hitters, I think can, can try to understand and look at the big picture. Um, trying to keep everybody involved, I think is also important. And that may sometimes come at the expense of the best matchup necessarily. But if a guy hasn't gotten a ball in like two rotations and he's going back to serve next. Then it's, you know, maybe the thought will cross my mind, you know, he's got a good blocker in front of him, but he probably needs a ball if he's going to go, you know, hit a good serve. And some, some hitters do require that. And so lots, lots of different things, mostly middle dependent though. I would say if the middle's committing all night, then it's okay. Where's the weak blocker that I can go at if they're reading, I'm probably trying to run something through the middle.

Mathias 47:50

Um, that's interesting with the managing your hitters too, because that's a, that's a big part of setting. you basically are the manager of who gets what balls and how good each hitter feels almost. And I think I used to, in my first couple years at university, I used to feel bad, like, when guys weren't getting balls. Like, I felt pressure to give them sets, because that's like the fun part about being a hitter is when you get the hit. And I, I really had to get over that. Um, like you're saying, that's part of the game, making sure everyone's involved. But there are times where you're there to win, not to make everyone happy. One thing that was really another tough psychological part about being a setter is that you have so much influence on the quality of your attackers games. what have you learned about missing sets and staying present and that pressure that comes with having that much influence on, on other people?

Brett 48:58

It's a good question. Yeah. It's really, it's a really stressful position because you just, you You touch the ball so often and have such a big impact, um, on the outcome of almost every play. And it's taken a long time, I think, to, to work, work on that, like, Inevitably, you're going to miss a set. And when I was younger, I think that would impact me for much longer. If I would make a really bad set or double, double one, or just completely mess something up or make a set of low middle ball into a total commit or something like that, like that would just really stick with me for plays and sometimes sets long. But I think something that's really helped me over time is one, watching like the very best setters in the world and how often they make mistakes. And I think I see that now more because I'm like, I play at the international level and can see what like a mistake is for an elite level setter. I would say I didn't really recognize the actual mistakes that were being made when I was younger and didn't have the same understanding of volleyball, but they are making mistakes all the time. I watch a lot of how they handle themselves when they make those mistakes, and the best in the world seem to really just like, water off the back, move on to the next play, set a good ball, and then just the game keeps going on, which is the reality of it. It's just literally one point, one touch, you know how to set the ball, just go set a good ball the next one and move on. That's a boy easier said than done, but that's what the best seemed to be able to do. And then watching myself on video, like a ton and then realizing how many things. Are not in my control in a volleyball game, I think in the moment. And then if you don't watch like games back and stuff, you will ruminate and feel like the mistakes you made were huge and so obvious and everything was your fault, especially as a setter, I think, because you are involved in literally every play and, you know, even if I set a perfect ball to somebody, but they make a mistake, I could have set someone else and maybe they wouldn't have made a mistake and we would have got that point. You know, like I always could have done something different. But I think the more you watch, you realize how many, and I talked Bruno about this. Um, we, I, he was really nice to sit down and have a coffee with me at world cup in like 2019 and that's something he really talked about. I asked him basically the same question and he was like, every time I watch a game back, I realized how many things like were totally not in my control. And you know, like gives the game, gives him a lot of freedom, I think, to just like play and not worry about mistakes. And so that was really helpful to me, put more focus on that and then see, Oh, I actually did this really well, or that mistake wasn't really that bad at all. Like that guy could have done something better. And then of course, you're always trying to like improve those mistakes, but I do think it's important to, to realize that while you do have a big influence on the game, there's still. So many things going on out of your control that you have to learn to not let impact your game going forward.

Jesse 52:26

We, we talked about that a little bit last episode too, is when you watch video, it's never as good or as bad as you remember. Um, he talks a little bit about the, the best setters in the world and their ability to move on. Um, one of my questions was what's the biggest difference between good setters and great setters. Is it that, or is it something else?

Brett 52:50

I think that's a big thing, but I think, um, like technical proficiency is the, is the number one thing. Um, and then that combined with like a real competitive edge and a real tactical understanding of the game, and then seemingly the ability to just remain cool and calm and through all situations of like very high pressure. But the best setters in the world are the best setters because they're literally the best setters of the ball first and foremost. And then like the next tier of setters in the world that are like, maybe have the same tactical understanding or the same competitiveness or just inevitably miss more sets. And I think so much of it comes down to just technical proficiency. And largely about footwork is the main thing that I see kind of sets the upper echelon above, like all the top, let's say like the top eight to 10 setters in the world, it all looks like, it looks like they all have more time than the rest of us. To set the ball. There's something really interesting about it. And I think, I mean, most of them are like phenomenal athletes, but not all of them are the fastest guys in the world. Like, it's not like they're necessarily getting to the ball way faster than other people, but there's something about their ability to always be in the right position under the ball, never waste steps. And then when they, it looks like they have more time. And are able to, they're, they're harder to read because of that in all situations. I think all of the top setters, like, like A list and B list setters or whatever, pretty hard to read like 80 percent of the time. But I think the very top ones are just always consistently in the same position, unless they don't want to be like, they can choose to manipulate their body position when they want to. Yeah. Whereas I think most of like the next tier of setters, you know, And then lower is like, most of the time you're kind of in the pocket in a pretty good spot, but you're not dictating every situation because your feet are not quite as good as that next level setters. Maybe your contact point isn't as consistent, all those things that those guys seem to do right every single time.

Jesse 55:19

That's a really good answer. I wanted to do an episode about that, actually, about how I think volleyball. Is a sport played with your feet. Like I think all skills are drastically improved with better feet performance, spiking, setting, passing, especially serving. And just like it always relates back, like you said, from the ground up. So I think, and like you said, even you, you, uh, saw that at a young age, when you, when you decided to go to the track and field, Uh, side with the, with the footwork. So I think that's really cool. That's a really cool takeaway for, for volleyball, for

Mathias 55:52

young volleyball players. I think that's an amazing observation that it looks like the best players in the world have more time. I think they almost look a little lazy too at the same time. That's why it's just the swaggiest position in volleyball when it's done properly, because they're just so efficient with the read and getting to the ball. I think it's just like the precision of the movements is, is incredible. And less is more, a lot of the time setting.

Jesse 56:22

And that's the same thing you're talking about hitters reading setters and setters position. It's the same thing. I bet you those setters are incredible readers of Of passers and defenders, they know exactly where the ball is going to go and how fast the ball is going to come off their platform for the same reason. And they're probably so dialed, so focused on that minuscule movement of their wrists or their elbows or whatever, just like hitters are when middles are setting.

Mathias 56:47

Yeah, I wanted to go back to the decision making. So you talked about your process of how you're thinking about the game on what you might run after the ball is passed. Yeah, How do you make the decision then to set? Do you have one person that you're like, I'm quite certain I'm going to give this guy the ball. Is there two options that you're deciding between? Um, another big thing is when the pass gets poor, do you have like an outlet that you're thinking about? And then the thing I want to add to that is asking about taking a look on the other side, because I think that's not necessary, necessarily in club volleyball and then university, a ton of setters start doing it like crazy And then internationally, it almost disappears again. So I'm wondering if what the reason for that is.

Brett 57:39

Yeah, I think usually, kind of have a plan with like a perfect pass, um, that if, if the ball is absolutely perfect, I'm going to set here. Um, often, like I said, like matchup dependent or like match player management dependent, like I said, like. this guy probably needs a ball here. If I get the perfect pass, I'm going to set him a good ball and he'll probably score. Um, and then outlet wise, I think it's really personnel dependent on your team. Usually if I am in a position where I don't necessarily have a, like a mid court presence, um, based on the pass, most teams I've been on like outletting to four is usually the better option because they can either, you know, Kill it or replay it to get a better situation. Whereas if you just like set the opposite and then you have to have a really terminal right side to just choose to set tough balls back there. Um, which is great if they kill lots of them, then absolutely feed them. But now with the way the game is going, like setting a ball high and closer than that in four usually gives your team. Way more options of how to like recycle that ball and then get a better, better situation. And then looking wise, I think I often approach a rally, like, okay, if I'm going to run something through the middle pipe, then I'll usually take a look. Cause I can usually sniff out if the middle is going to jump with the middle or not. Um, and I find that easier on like running a 50 with the pipe over. If I run the 30, um, I have a harder time setting the 30 after looking. I think if I. If I know I want to set 30, I probably won't look because I have to really focus on it. Um, whereas if I run the 50 pipe, I can take my eyes off the ball, figure out what that middle is doing, and then still set a really good ball to the middle or the pipe based on what I saw. But I think looking is interesting. It's something I started training when I was like in club, but not. In the capacity to actually do something with the like information. It was more just learning the skill of taking my eyes off the ball and then coming back to the ball and then being able to set a good ball. She takes a really long time. It's a really foreign thing to have to do. And then when I got to university, I started doing more of it with Brock and we started doing actual, like really specific cases of when to look and how to use the information. So we've made like, okay, I'm going to look at the. Right side blocker. I'm going to set it, call it, call a 31, look at the right side blocker. If he's bunched in helping I'll set over if he's releasing, then I'll set the 30 or then like the middle pipe, or if I call a 30, the middle front, then I'll sit back if he doesn't front, then I'll set the 30, just like narrowing it down to if then like two choices with your look, I think is really important if you're just looking. And then trying to make a decision between all four hitters based on what you see. I think that's way too much information to synthesize in the moment. And then like, what are you actually looking for? So I think Brock helped me a lot with like specifying what I'm looking at and then making a choice between two things based on one specific look. Um, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think you're right, Tia. I do see a lot of setters looking in university and oftentimes it's such like a quick violent head turn. I don't think that anybody can actually like take in information and make a decision based on it. Some can and some do it well, but I would say then at the international level, you do see a lot less of it. And I think a lot more of that is because setters can see peripherally really well. At that level and don't need to turn their head. And then also it's just become such like a feel thing. Like you end up, if you play long enough, you end up kind of feeling what's going on on the other side instead of having to see it. And so it just like. you don't need to look as much. And then I think also setting at that level is just very tactically based. So you're trying to dictate what's going on, um, and thinking a couple plays ahead rather than just reacting to what the other side's giving you all the time.

Mathias 1:02:09

Yeah, I like that. That is cool. Feeling the game versus seeing the game and we, where you're saying with making the decision, if you're going to take a look between two attackers, we do the same thing at Trinity with the, if then statements, if this guy does this, then I'll do this. If the guy does this, then I'll do this. And then it's just one piece of information, two decisions. And I think that's a good way of simplifying that. And also think at the highest level, when setters are taking a look, it has to happen quite a bit of time before the ball is actually set. And I think middles are good enough at that level where they can make you see whatever they want you to see. So I, maybe you lose a bit of advantage there too. Um, I, I want to ask one final question, overarching. Now that you've Played professionally for eight years. all over the world, played in a ton of different countries, gone to the Olympics this year. my question is, why do you continue to play volleyball?

Brett 1:03:16

Good question. I think I just absolutely love playing with a volleyball, basically, like it's what I want to do most of the time, like when I'm home, it can be like after a long summer of just volleyball, volleyball, volleyball, and you're kind of sick of it. And then I get home and the next day, like I see a volleyball, all I want to go do is just like go play pepper. And so I think it's, it's kind of as simple as that. Like the love of literally just like. Hitting a ball around, specifically a volleyball, is like one of the things I love to do the most. And then I think further, I'm really always been extremely like proud to play for the national team, something I've never taken for granted. And so any chance I get to do that is like, you know, it's been, it was my dream from as long as I can remember, starting volleyball was wanting to play for the national team. So I don't take that lightly. And then, like you said, I've been living and playing overseas. For a number of years now, and it is become, it has become like my life, like me and Tessa's life, basically. And so, it's hard to imagine right now, not living that life, And I still have a lot of love for it, and it's a, yeah, it's just a great life, and I know it won't last forever. And so I think I'm, as long as I keep getting opportunities to play. Over there and with the national team and just getting to keep playing volleyball. I still have a lot of love for it and a lot of, a lot of joy that I derive from it.

Mathias 1:05:11

Alrighty. I think that wraps up episode number 16. Thanks Brett for coming on. That was awesome. Loved getting to learn about how your mind works. Um, some things that you've learned over your career and diving into the setting stuff was awesome. Thanks everyone for listening. Signing off.

1:05:32

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