Episode #10 - Leadership

In this episode we talk about the role of humility and empathy in a leadership position. We further discuss what leadership means to us, how we have experienced great leadership, and we highlight some of the important leaders in our life and the amazing individual qualities each one brings to a team or a friendship.

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Transcript

Jesse 0:00

leadership, I don't think is ever one person's job

Mathias 0:03

by trying to separate the words they're saying from the tone they're using, or the volume, or the aggression

Oog 0:11

I found exactly what I, I didn't want to be like, as a man or as a person

0:18

hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Mathias 0:34

And we're live. Welcome back everyone to episode number 10 of the Pit to Pro podcast. Today we're going to be talking about leadership. So as always, we'll be going through some of our thoughts and our experiences on the art and the science of leadership. Um, I guess to kick things off,

Jesse 0:58

look. What is leadership

Oog 1:01

to you? Um, I think to me in leadership, it doesn't actually have to be anything like specific or concrete, I find that they're very charismatic and two, they have the people skills to be able to persuade. everybody else. And so when you think about that in a volleyball context, I find that your leaders are probably less likely to be people who are quiet into themselves, I think those are two underlying things that I've noticed.

Jesse 1:40

I think leadership is just like the influence you have on somebody or somebody has on you. And it doesn't have to be charismatic influence. It can just be any kind of influence that you choose to do. Respond to, or follow, or replicate, or, you know, something like, something like that.

Mathias 2:01

Yeah. I think like the charismatic people, people are the people that have chosen to be leaders or trying to be leaders or trying to influence people, but like leadership can happen by accident too. Correct. And like, like Jess was saying, it's just kind of the influence that you have on people. on other people. And that's why, yeah, some people who don't want to be leaders just happen to fall into that scenario just because of the kind of people they are. And that often happens by leading by example, I think. And you just hope that the people on your team or in your business or in your friend group or family or whatever, you hope the people that fall into those leadership positions naturally or by example are good influences. But It's not always the case. Sometimes the, the people that we follow, the people that influence us, uh, aren't leading us in the best direction.

Oog 3:05

Yeah, I agree. Like, when you think about a team, like, let's look back to whatever, my first year, there was, there was a lot of guys that were very charismatic and like for the boys, but then there was like the behind the scenes guys that they could have been both, right? But there was other guys that weren't very outgoing and expressive that were still leaders in their own way.

Jesse 3:30

Yeah, dude, I, that's something I want to talk about today on today's episode is that, like, I, leadership, I don't think is ever one person's job. Like no one person gets to be the head coach and one person gets to wear the captain bar on their jersey But every team has every team could have 12 leaders on it because they lead their own thing They lead in their own way, like maybe someone's super Disciplined in the weight room and he leads the weight room and someone leads the extracurricular stuff and the social engagement community outreach stuff and someone's the Captain like there's all kinds of Different leaders on a, on a volleyball team or a sports team. And I think when those, when you can put your heads together, that's when like really cool, good things happen, especially from different like rankings of, or positions of power. Like when coaches talk to players and older players, talk to younger players and players are talking to high school recruits and stuff like that. I think that's really, really powerful for, um, high performance.

Mathias 4:34

Sure, because like the ultimate leader of the team is the head coach, but they can't be the director of all those different factors that you were talking about, but they can influence the people who are the directors of those. Whatever facets of the sport, you know what I mean? They can talk to the lead, the, the weight room leader and be like, hey, we need to make sure that the guys are lifting heavy this week. Um, so that's like the delegation kind of part of leadership, I guess, even though like the coach would still be in control at that point.

Jesse 5:09

I do remember, I don't know, I was like U14 or U15 or something, and after one of the games, mom was like, Oh, like, really good leadership out there. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. Like, I'm in U14, I'm like, I was just playing volleyball, like, I don't, I don't know what that means. And I think, like, leadership does not have to be a complicated some people, like you guys were saying, it comes naturally, but just like being yourself and supporting those around you, I think is the simplest definition of leadership or when it's not in your best interest, supporting those around you when it's not in your best interest, I think.

Mathias 5:53

I think it's like being some, being someone and acting in a way that is worth following. You're going to end up being a leader. I think that's why we have that saying, like, keep your porch clean. you can't get mad at your neighbor for his porch or front yard being all messy if yours is too but once you clean up your stuff, then you have the ability to influence others and I think that's kind of the idea behind that message is Yeah, taking care of your own stuff And I think people are inspired and people want to follow people who take care of themselves People respect people who respect themselves And so, yeah, I think a lot of it can start from that. Well, I actually

Oog 6:41

had that conversation this week. Like I was talking to one of the guys that I work with, and we were chatting about how people who, who take care of themselves and, and carry themselves in a way that they, actually care. And I think that that's the thing that it all breaks down to is care. the people that care about what it is they're doing usually influence people more. You don't see people that don't care influencing people in that area. Like the weight room captain, if he didn't care about the weight room, he wouldn't have the ability to influence people or the ability to lead people. So I think it does come down to that, whatever, self care, care about school, care about volleyball, care about the weight room, care about being like a quality dude

Jesse 7:31

I think that's, well, Tis, I wanna go back to what you were talking about, about the porch thing.'cause I think it also is also like you, yeah. You wanna keep your porch clean, but you also, I think good leaders won't ask any of their. Followers or people below them to do anything that they wouldn't do themselves. You know, like I think there's a, I think there's a Mark Cuban video or clip or something about when he bought the Mavericks and he put his desk right in the middle of all the salespeople and started cold calling all these people. Cause he's like, if I'm going to ask my employees to do it, then I'm going to do it too. It doesn't matter where in this company I rank or you rank. We're all working towards the common goal.

Mathias 8:14

Oog, you had that like recently, Hey, your boss went, weren't rock picking with you or

Oog 8:19

something? Yeah. for those of you that don't know, I, I work for, it's called Harbin seed farm. And so we were in the middle of the seeding and the tractor broke down. And instead of just whining and complaining my boss was just like, well, I'm, I'm going to come pick her rocks with you. And then while we were picking rocks, he, uh, he explained to me his philosophy on On being a boss. And he said, like, I'm never going to ask you guys to do something that I wouldn't do myself. I'm not going to make you go out and pick rocks for 12 hours a day for 12 days. Like that I'll make you do it for a day. I'll do it for a day and then we'll move on together. And I find that people who embody that philosophy are usually good leaders.

Mathias 9:03

Absolutely. Jess, you said something you said the, the people following the leader, the people under the leader, but I think the leaders actually at the bottom of the, the pyramid. you ever see an image is, I think it's pretty popular, like a wolf pack charging through the snow. And yeah, like there's a couple of strong ones at the front and then it's like the weakest ones next. Then that everyone else and then the alpha or the leaders at the very back, just making sure that no one gets left behind. Um, and like picking up the slack, if anything goes wrong, I think that's kind of how leadership works is you are at the bottom and you're, you're facilitating everyone else's success. It's hard. I think

Jesse 9:53

that that wolf analogy is cool because I think a lot of. People would assume that the leader would be at the front to like break trail or like trample out the snow and stuff like that. I think that wolf analogy is a really good analogy also of like sharing the load and the weight of leadership. Like you put the strong one in the front because that's what they're good at. You put whatever, like giving everyone a job and supporting everyone from the back. I really like that. Have you, have you guys read, leaders eat last? No. By

Oog 10:26

whom? Um,

Jesse 10:28

I don't know, some writer. Oh, all right. No, this guy writes books. Yeah, he writes books about leadership. Have you read it?

Oog 10:38

Why are we talking about this? I

Jesse 10:41

was hoping one of you guys could like talk about it.

Mathias 10:44

Yeah. Yeah. I, well, I put that in there. Yeah. Even though I haven't read the book and just because I liked the title, I really liked the title. I think that I already, well, actually. I probably have no idea what the book's going to say. There might be some twists in there and stuff, but I think that that's like a cool image is that if, yeah, there's a certain amount of food on the table or the wolf pack, whatever takes down a caribou. The leader waits and lets his people eat first and, uh, that's like just shows the care that you have to have, um, for your teammates and for your people when, when you're on a leadership position. It's like putting, putting the team's best interests ahead of your own. It's kind of, uh, a way to sum that up.

Jesse 11:32

I think that's also a very, like, empathetic approach.

Oog 11:38

I was going to use the word humility, like the wolf at the back of the pack, like, for those of you who haven't seen that picture, it's like, there are a ways behind the pack and I think they're putting themselves at risk for the betterment of a bigger purpose. I think humility is kind of that. Giving yourself up for the betterment of your people,

Jesse 12:02

Where do, um, cow leaders go in the herd?

Oog 12:07

Do you want me to actually explain this? Because you actually have an answer. I have a lot of answers. Um, and it'll, it's different for different kinds of bovines or, or, uh, ruminants, if you will. But, uh, cows, there's a lead cow in every herd. And if you get that lead cow going wherever you want it to go, the whole herd will follow. So if you're trying to get cows to go through a two foot gate, the If you can somehow get the lead cow to go through it, every single other cow will, calves, calves will do whatever they want, but cows will follow. And so that's a different thing, but you got to remember that they're not wired the same as, as humans or wolves or like, they're not wild animals. So,

Jesse 12:52

I don't know, but that's a, that's super cool too. Yeah. It's leadership, man. Yeah.

Mathias 12:56

It's literally, yeah. They don't have to be the back to be the leader, but still like, yeah, the influence they have on the, you know. Everyone else. Yeah.

Oog 13:02

Well, the whole, the whole herd trusts, trusts that that cow knows what she's doing. And so it's like, if she's running, I'm running. If she's stopping, I'm stopping, right? So, and I think that's a whole nother kind of the follower side of it is like the dedication to be able to trust that your leader knows what they're doing. I

Mathias 13:24

don't

Oog 13:25

know. Yeah.

Mathias 13:26

I think you can, uh, kind of discern how, how much you can trust your leader by the leading by example side of things. Because if they're doing it, then you can trust that it's something worth doing, usually, I would say. Okay, that's a

Jesse 13:44

good point. And that brings up one of my pressing questions. And it's, let's like switch to volleyball a little bit here. So we've defined leadership. There can be good, bad, good leaders and bad leaders. And it's all about the influence you have on someone. So every coach, every coach, Inherently is a leader, correct? By that definition, because they're leading the team, whether they're a good coach or a bad coach, they have influence on everyone. Yeah. So what happens when you have a, maybe not a bad coach, but a coach that you don't agree with, or a coach that you don't see eye to eye with, or a coach that it doesn't seem like he has, or they have your best interest in mind. Or a coach that coaches you the way they were coached or the way, yeah, what do you do then in that situation? Cause that happens, that's happened to me. Yeah. We won't talk about name, but I just really, really don't like being in a gym with that certain coach and I don't, I don't know what to do.

Oog 14:54

I guess I mean, like, yeah, like if you don't agree with their leadership style, you'd have to take away the emotional side of it and, and really just get to the bottom of why they're doing what they're doing and what it is that they're saying rather than all the other fluff pieces. And if you can cut through all that, then I think you truly find what it is they're trying to say. So if you don't agree with them as a leader, I think there are ways that you can navigate around the person. I don't, does that make sense?

Jesse 15:34

You lost me there, I'm gonna be

Mathias 15:35

honest. I think I understand what you're saying. And I really don't like getting yelled at as a player. but I've found a way to be able to respond to it better, by trying to separate the words they're saying from the tone they're using, or the volume, or the aggression, or anything like that. I think that's kind of what you were getting at there, Oog. Yeah. And, yeah, if If they're yelling at you, let's say that instead of hearing it, you just got a printed out transcription of what they just said. I feel like often the message Um, that's like one style of leadership and coaching that maybe some people respond great to that getting yelled at. I don't know if anyone likes it, but some people respond amazing to it. That's one kind of strategy that I've used in that scenario. Um, and one thing you suggest dealing with difficult coaches is when they don't have your best interest in mind. At that point, I have no idea. What you would even do because I think that's like that's unacceptable. Um, well as a coach, but I will say, I will say that sometimes you can find, you can find that they do have your best. Interest in mind through all of the, the whatever's going on in the front. So there are some coaches that are really tough on their players, but it's because they want their players to be better and they want their players to thrive. And if you can think that way and discern that from their actions, then I think you're in a good spot.

Oog 17:37

Yeah, and I think that's kind what I was, wait, trying, I wanna clarify, I

Jesse 17:39

wanna clarify that though. I didn't mean the best interest in mine because I would say 99% of the coaches. In this country will have, they want you to succeed. They want to win games and they want you to get better, but I'm more mean, like when they only see you and communicate to you as a volleyball player and there's nothing outside of that,

Mathias 18:04

I think that's a good point though, because if we revisit the Simon Sinek video, that I forget which episode, maybe the mental health episode. We talked about that on. I think that's the kind of ideal of leadership that. we should be aiming for and

Jesse 18:28

like looking at the whole person,

Mathias 18:29

looking at the whole person and asking the questions that will reveal to you what the underlying reason is for the perfect person's behavior or attitude or whatever, and not just prescribing him. Okay. new actions or yelling at them for doing something wrong. Like the story that you had with Adam, he could have yelled at you, which he honestly was not like, wouldn't have been out of line because he was responding to what you were doing, which was out of line, you know? Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's the true, the true empathy piece of leadership that I think creates amazing trust between, between leaders and, and their teams.

Jesse 19:14

That, that actually reminds me of another thing that I think all good leaders. Put in place and it's very clear expectations. I knew what I did was wrong. And I knew that what the consequence was going to be, it was very clearly laid out, just like I think sometimes you have leaders where you don't know what is required of you.

Oog 19:36

you're never going to have a perfect leader. if you don't know what's required of you and they won't tell you, maybe they're not your, your ideal leader for that situation that you're in like leaders change, like you, we have a leader for eight months of the year and then they graduate and then we change the next one

Jesse 19:55

was specifically more talking about coaches because you're kind of stuck with the coach you have, but on a team, many different players have a different role within that team. And yeah, you're going to surround yourself with people that you want to emulate and people that you want to spend your time with. surrounding yourself with the people that you know are going to make you better and are going to push you and are going to hold you to a standard that is. up to your own personal, expectation. Like, I think Tias, Tias was really good at that. So she, like, in our, our last year together at Trinity, I remember a couple instances. One, specifically, I remember I, like, highball, I went to go recycle, and it kind of, like, dropped in front of me, and I, like, clapped my hand or something with the barrel or one of the middles. I was like, you gotta get that. And Tias looks at me, he's like, well, you can cover yourself too. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's a good point. Like, and he just like keeps you to a standard that he knows, like Tious knows that I want to have that standard for myself and I know that he has my best interest in mind. So I think that's a, that's a good example of, uh, like leadership amongst the team, like not talking about the coaches.

Mathias 21:13

And there was one question episode where the question came up about comparing yourself to other people. And Jesse, your suggestion was that you can steal certain qualities that you like from a person's game instead of, uh, comparing like, Oh, I'm so far behind. Like, Oh, I can learn from that guy. And I think you can do the same with a leader. If you are in a situation that you, that you don't like. I'm sure that all leaders will have certain qualities that you appreciate. Certain areas that you want to follow them on. And I think then, yeah, you can make the decision of what parts you want to

Jesse 21:57

follow. I think that's what the, the Chris Hadfield quote is saying is he learned the most from the worst leaders, because you have to find things that you resonate with. You have to steal things. You ha you probably learn a ton about yourself, how you respond to certain comments or certain, uh, objectives or

Mathias 22:17

whatever it may be. And you might learn that you never want to be like that person. And that's still a, a massive, valuable lesson.

Oog 22:27

Yeah. I even found working bouncing from boss to boss every summer. I found exactly what I, I didn't want to be like, if I was to ever own a company, you know, like I found what I didn't want to be like as a, as a, as a man or as a person, And I think that, like, as a follower, it's really important to look deep and think, like, where, what are these people doing that's good? That I like, what are these people doing that's bad that I don't like, if you can emulate different things that come from different people and kind of make it like a buffet line and take a little bit of everything that you like. I think that that's going to build a better leader overall than just having one mindset and sticking, you know, like

Jesse 23:18

Good analogy would be like the buffet analogy. I think that's why university is so cool because you're there for five years, maybe six years, you have 18 year olds learning from 23 or 24 year olds and you get to Like you said, discern and break down each captain class or each graduating class and steal bits and pieces. And then when you're in that position, you have little pieces of, of Adam and little pieces of Eric and little pieces of Slater, and like, you have all these little pieces of different people that made them such great leaders. That you can then give back to, to your team and to your program.

Oog 23:57

And you got to add your own little layer or spice to it. But I always go with hot sauce to a buffet line, right?

Jesse 24:05

But I think that's, I think that's why leadership or leadership skills don't really start forming. Until around then,

Oog 24:18

No, I get what you're saying. Like there has to be a level of experience to be able to to relay to other people if you have no volleyball experience and and you're going into a position where it's like, okay There's gonna be high pressure high stress and no one's ever been there. I think that that's when things can go, like, sideways, like, you need people that have been in, like, situations and had experiences in order to help others along and help others succeed, basically, like, sit at the back of the pack and push them through, because they know what's coming, they know what's coming down the other end of that snow trail, That's a good point.

Jesse 25:01

I like that a lot.

Mathias 25:04

Do you think that everyone should be a leader? Or that everyone should want to be a leader? Or if it's possible to not be a leader?

Oog 25:13

I don't think it's possible to not be a leader.

Jesse 25:16

Yeah, not if we're defining leadership as having influence on people. Because I think every action, every word influences that person in some way.

Mathias 25:29

Yeah, it's kind of about this thing as well. If that's how we're

Jesse 25:31

defining leadership.

Mathias 25:32

Well, when I was in like, junior high, grade 7, 8, like a couple times teachers would sit me down. And be like, Oh, you're a leader in this class. you need to start focusing or else, like all these people are going to start doing the same dumb stuff you're doing. And I was like, Oh man, that's so stupid. Like, I don't even, I don't want these people to do what I'm doing. Like, just let me do it, you know, but that's not really, I was trying to be the class clown and stuff, joking around. And, uh, I didn't want to, necessarily, but sometimes you just end up in that, in that scenario, even within like friend groups, um, they have a lot of influence on each other.

Jesse 26:20

I think, I think like, if you do the friend group, uh, example, I think different people in that group will have different skills, which will lead, let them lead in that. So like one might be really good at planning or one might be like the adventure one, or one of your friends might be the one who's always worried. Like, I don't know, but they all contribute to the, in this case, the friendship that probably makes it really special,

Mathias 26:49

I think we should talk about the responsibility that comes with leadership because I think that's one of the key characteristics of being a leader is the increase in responsibility and the people who you're responsible for and I think as a leader it's important that when things go well you share the credit and You highlight the people who worked on that, or you highlight your teammates who made the play, even if you were involved. And when things go poorly, you take responsibility. Even when things Weren't necessarily your fault, or you only had a small part to play. You take responsibility and especially I'm thinking back just a quick example of the center, like whenever my middle gets blocked by a commit block, I take full responsibility of that because I shouldn't be sitting into commit blocks. Even though that middle has still quite a high probability and a chance of scoring against the commit block, I'm taking full responsibility for that. Um,

Jesse 27:57

I have a quick story for the other side of it. Yeah. But like giving credit, like I remember. One on second year, third year, something like that. When Ben was a coach, he's like, my favorite volleyball. He's talking to the team. He's like, my favorite volleyball is when I'm watching you guys. And after a big point, everyone points at someone else. Like Eric could get a huge whatever cross court swing after a long rally. But he points to Colton, who was like, what a great day. And Colton points to Derek. Well, what an incredible set. And Derek points to Jack's like, wow, great. Slow down. And you're just giving credit away, giving credit away. Instead of like Eric being like, yeah, I'm the man. I just bombed that ball. It's just like deflecting credit to everyone else and lifting everyone else up.

Oog 28:38

Absolutely. Absolutely. Have you guys have you guys ever read the book Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink? I read like 15 pages. Alright, then you probably get the gist of it. But, basically the idea is that you When things go bad, you have to take extreme ownership in your life. just like you said, you got, you have to understand that it's not anyone else's fault. Like if it's so easy to throw blame around and it's so easy to, to do that and, and make other people feel worse so that you can feel better. But I think as a leader, it's being able to just soak. Those, those hard moments and being like, yep, I messed up or yep. I, I could have done better. Like there's, there's no one else but me, you know, like. Absolutely.

Mathias 29:30

Yeah. Side note. I think that's also. just individually taking responsibility for things. it puts the control back in your hands. If things just happen to you, then it's some external force or other people that have complete influence on, on the quality of your life and like your wellbeing. But if you take responsibility for the bad things that happened to you, then you can do something about it. You say, what, what part of this problem am I responsible for, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna fix that. something that kind of goes along with this is When you're a leader, everyone's problems become your problems. And I noticed this probably for the first time last year at school. I was in more of a leadership position than I had ever been before on a team. And I really prided myself before this on just like being the do your job guy. So if I was taking care of my own business, then It was a good day for me. I could be proud of that. So yeah, if I was focused at practice, if I came prepared, if I played well, if I made good decisions off the court, then like I felt pretty good. And I felt like I was contributing to the team by doing that. But then as I, grew into more of a leadership position, uh, that wasn't good enough anymore. And it was like, if, if other guys aren't focused in practice, then that's my problem. If guys don't show up prepared for practice, that's my problem. If guys are making poor decisions off the court, that's, again, my problem. And, It's a really heavy burden actually. And I wasn't really expecting that. It wasn't necessarily prepared, uh, to be dealing with that because dealing with your own stuff is, it's pretty consuming, off the bat. Yeah, exactly. And then, and then when you have an entire team's worth of stuff that just comes up, that's now your responsibility. Like the burden is pretty heavy as a leader. Um, and it's not just when somebody does something that we don't like in our team. leadership isn't just like ripping on them and telling them what to do, how to do it. But you really have to care for that person, kind of like the Simon Sinek thing. Really have to care for them and take the time to teach them how to do it properly as a leader. For example, if guys show up late to practice, you, they know, they know they're not supposed to be late to practice and yelling at them is not going to do anything, but you ask them, why are you late? And they say, Oh, I missed my alarm. And then I'd sit down with them. I say, okay, well, usually I like to set two alarms, 15 minutes apart and make sure I tell my roommate that I'm taking a nap and to wake me up if I'm not up by this time. And then they actually learn something from, from that situation.

Oog 32:32

I couldn't agree more to this. Um, question.

Jesse 32:37

It is hard. Well, it is hard though, in a volleyball context. I think the idea of extreme ownership doesn't always work. I want to say it doesn't always work. In like, let's say, in an offensive concept. Like if I get blocked, but the setter's always like, Oh, my bad, man, I gotta give you a better set. That's not making him any better. Cause it was. Like I would say that's 100 percent my fault if he delivered a ball that I thought was hittable.

Oog 33:18

Exactly, but that's the whole thing is like if let's say, let's say you get blocked at the end The passer's like, oh dang, like, oh, I should have passed that better. Like, I know that I can do better. And the set is like, Oh, I, I know I can deliver a better ball. And you're like, Oh, I probably shouldn't hit that cross. I could hit that line. Everyone in their own like way is exhibiting extreme ownership. For what had happened, it's not just the leader at that point, it's every single person is going towards that. I can do better for the group. And I think that that's where you're going to build like leadership skills that we were talking about earlier.

Mathias 33:59

maybe it's not, maybe it's not taking full ownership of the entire outcome, but it's taking full ownership of the part that you know, you played. Yeah, for sure. You know, as the center, I play a role in your attack and like, I'm going to take full responsibility for the quality of that. Like if, If I say you a ball and you get blocked and then like the libero comes up and says my bad, like that makes no sense. It is not even connected, but I am connected. I do have a, I do have a part to play. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take ownership for you getting blocked maybe, but I'll take ownership and say, I can pull that off a little bit, but yeah, maybe, maybe not the actual outcome. That's

Jesse 34:44

a really good point though about I was thinking about the other way around, when sometimes we, I've had liberals that will come up to you and tell you how to serve or like try and help you with your spiking or something, and it just kind of rubs me the wrong way. But I think it's because it's not within their influence.

Mathias 35:04

Yeah. yeah, that's, that's another important thing, dude. you have to, you have to respect, maybe that's extreme, but it's best if you respect the person that you're following or the person that you're trying to influence has to respect you. Uh, is what I think.

Oog 35:25

I agree, but it's not like a, it's not like you have to respect me. It's like a, it's got to be an earned respect. Yeah, maybe,

Mathias 35:33

maybe credibility is a better word actually. Credibility, like I respect the Libero because he's great at his job, but he has no credibility in the spiking realm. Right, right. I think

Jesse 35:46

too. one of the best ways to earn someone's respect is to exhibit that humility or that empathy in all walks. Of life. Like, if you're just an empath or, if you just think you're a leader on the court, but as soon as you go home or as soon as you go into the team room or you're in class, and you're just like a doofus and, like, I don't know, no one's gonna respect that. Or no one's gonna follow you if you're not exhibiting those traits in the way that you carry yourself outside of the gym. I think. Yeah, I

Mathias 36:28

agree. And I think I would frame that as kind of like the most authentic people have probably the biggest influence.

Jesse 36:40

And I would say most, I would say the most authentic people are often the best leaders as well. I would think. You

Oog 36:48

could say that.

Mathias 36:51

Also, side note, dude. Authentic people are just, like, the best people. They're, they're so fun to be around when people just are, are their own unique person. And that's definitely influence. It's inspiring when people are just themselves. Uh,

Oog 37:05

yeah. Uh,

Jesse 37:06

yeah. 100%, man. I can think of a couple people that I just love being around just because they're just like are just so honest and so like, this is how I see the world. And this is what I'm going to say. And you love it. So refreshing. They don't

Oog 37:21

give two cents about what other people think about them because they're just incredibly content with who they are and that's, yeah, it's something that's admirable for sure.

Mathias 37:32

I think that's back to like the self respect self love thing. Like we are drawn to people who respect themselves, are comfortable with themselves. Um, question here. Do you guys have any. You don't have to name the people, but any examples of great leaders that you've played with or played for and why, why they're great leaders to you?

Jesse 38:07

I think, I kind of already said earlier, but I think Thias had a lot of influence on me, especially in our last two, well, throughout our whole playing career, but especially the last two years, because you held yourself to such a high standard. That I almost felt like I was failing if I didn't hold myself to that same standard. And like, it wasn't malicious or anything like that, like you weren't, like, there was no, ever any ill intention, but I was just like, man. Like, that wasn't even that bad, but T. S. is so frustrated with his Execution. I wonder why I'm not like that. I thought that was, that was a really cool thing that I tried to steal from your game. Um, Adam is another one. Adam Schreimer is another one that comes to my mind. It's for me because I played with him. I lived with him. He was my assistant coach and then he was my head coach. And there was just so much influence that I received from him, especially when he was a setter in his fifth year, A, being a setter. Being a senior, he just had, he was so good at coming there beside you and putting himself in your shoes and like asking you questions that made you think. And being right there with you in, in the fire. And if you were scared, he was scared for you. And if you were excited, he was excited for you. And if you were nervous, he was nervous for you. And like, I just thought that was such a cool, um, that's true empathy there. Skillable. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then I don't know when that came to my mind. Oh, Brett, Brett Walsh. I think Brett's an incredible leader. I think he. He's always thinking about those around him. He's always like two steps ahead. He's always thinking about different outcomes and how he can help prepare the, the, his teammates around him, how he can make the lives of those around him eat better or easier, how he can support and help. And I don't know. I just think he's also a very authentic person. Uh, those would be okay. Kind of interesting that all three of them were setters. I think that's, uh, those would be my three. That's cool. What about you, T?

Oog 40:33

Yeah, TS, do you have any non setter, uh?

Mathias 40:40

Yeah. last year, especially the people that had the biggest influence on me were Jesse, you, Brody and Henry, and you all. Had big impact on me in different ways. I think, I think Brody would be on my list, too. Yeah, absolutely. Brody's a great leader. You, you, especially because of, again, that kind of empathetic people, caring, you're, you're meeting, with all these guys outside of gym time, going for coffees, really caring about people, that's Inspirational for sure. And I'm inspired by Brody's attitude towards everything. Like he just goes so hard and in the weight room on the floor, like you never see that guy taking a day off. Or giving half effort for anything. But if he does take a day off, he goes full day off. Yeah, yeah, he goes hard at that too. Um, yeah, He was a guy, like, if I didn't have the energy one day, I just looked at Brody and I, I saw he was doing it, so I can do it too. And then Henry, one, for the authenticity. That we were just talking about. Super authentic guy, super genuine guy. That's inspirational. And then, uh, the way that he takes care of his, his body and his diet and stuff. That guy, I, we lived in a house with five dudes and by the end of the year we were All on Henry's diet. Like he'd loved what meat, honey, and fruit and stuff. And at the beginning of the year, we're all cooking, like frozen pizzas, all this garbage. And by the end of the year, it's like guys are just pouring honey over ground beef and crushing it with like a watermelon or something. So that's like that the definition of leadership, because he was authentic and he was committed to yeah, his own practice. And then we, we followed him down that path. Super positive, dude. Dad.

Jesse 42:42

That house, I think is the perfect circle of leadership. If you think like we all learned from each other and we all stole things. Like you just said, we all got better at eating. We all put on a ton of muscle that year. Cause we were all following Brody. We all were super disciplined and stuff. We were all going to bed early. Cause you were always the first one in bed. You'd go to bed at like nine o'clock and be like, Oh, Jesus is going to bed. We got to go to bed. And like, you just like feed off each other and everyone contributes to the group or to the team, what they're really good at, I think that's a perfect little tiny sample size of what true team leadership looks like. Yeah, absolutely. And then,

Mathias 43:22

well, I have to toss Ben in there. Obviously, that's an obvious answer. He's an amazing leader. And I think we talked about this a little bit in the last episode. Um, but yeah, really, again, super empathetic leader, there was not a, a single ounce of doubt in your mind that he didn't have your best interest in mind as a person and as a player. I think that was, that was amazing to be under his leadership.

Jesse 43:52

And he also, like I said earlier, had such clear expectations. Like, he was very, very good at communicating what he wanted from you. And he was very clear at communicating what he was going to give to us. He's like, this is what I'm going to give to the program. And this is what I need you guys to give back to the program. And this is how we're going to be successful. And the roadmap to success was laying out or laid out from day one. I think that's another mark of a really good leader.

Mathias 44:22

And then the last guy that I would speak about, I only played with him for one season, but it was Thomas Samovu, the head coach of the national team. And the thing that I appreciate about him is that I know that he would go to war for me. he fought so hard for so many things for our team. He, uh, never in the national team have we had meals. We've always cooked our own stuff or had to go out and buy our own stuff. But he like fought and fought with the organization to find an extra, I don't know, 25, 000 or something so that he could feed us in the gym because he said, this is what this team needs. he re organized our entire, uh, weight room because he said, this is not good enough. Like we're not treated, being treated well enough here. And one day I come into the weight room and he's just grabbing all this, Just random sports gear that's from the center and not ours. And he was just throwing it in the hallway, just clearing the place out. He said, this is our space. And so, I thought that was a cool example of leadership because you could just tell he was also super cutthroat. Like if guys weren't meeting the standard or guys weren't going to commit to the program, then you were out. So super black and white, super clear, somewhat ruthless, I guess, in some of his decisions, but. He was doing it for the good of the team. And you had not a doubt in your mind that that was the case.

Oog 45:50

Yeah. That's a perfect example of like all the different styles of leadership and you just have your own, your own way. And, and it doesn't matter how you carry it out, but as long as you are whatever genuine, empathetic, and. you think that you can help other people and that's perfect.

Jesse 46:11

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And TS, I would for sure have all of those people on my list as well. I think I can think of tons of people that I can put on that list, but what are great examples. I think that, uh, wraps up episode 10 of the Pit to Pro podcast. thank you for listening. I hope you learned something from this. We'd love to hear your feedback, hear your questions in the question box and, see you soon, signing off.

46:42

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