Episode #7 - Mental Health in Sport

The goal of this episode is to continue to do our part in breaking the stigma around mental health – especially in athletes. We wanted to share our journey with mental health, how it has affected us, and how to create a safe space for those important people around you.

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Transcript

Mathias 0:05

For the last three months, I had no goals anymore, I was basically just existing, filling my time, waiting to come home. that's not a fun state to be in.

Jesse 0:16

He's like, are you okay? Like, you don't see him yourself. And I just started to cry and he gave me a hug and I told him that my Opa died He's like, I wish you had told me, I wish that you had let me in

Oog 0:28

my identity was wrapped up in being the best I could be because I wanted to be better than you two. And then you hit a point where that's not going to happen

0:39

hello and welcome to the Pit the Pro podcast. Jesse, Matthias, and Aaron Elson. This podcast is meant to guide young athletes on their journey to high performance. Join us as we share our first hand experiences in an effort to help you reach your own valuable goals.

Jesse 0:56

right, everyone. Welcome back to the Pit to Pro podcast. Episode number seven. Uh, we'll be focusing on mental health and mental health in sport. Um, and because May is mental health month, we really want to do our part to, talk about mental health, especially in, athletics and do our part to, to break the stigma around talking about it. And. experiencing it and sharing our stories about it. So our goal for this episode is to be less, um, science based more personal and talk about our experiences hopefully someone at home can relate. Um, so I want to start this thing off, guys, um, talking about identity and, figuring out what, what is your why? And I think that was a big thing growing up. Often people would say, what's your why? What's your why? I really didn't understand it until really quite recently, I think. And I think that identity plays a really, really big role in mental health. And I strongly believe that mental health and your relationship to your identity Are very tightly tied. So I guess I'll share a quick thing about me that I think you guys already know, but maybe not is, is with my back injury, why I got depressed and why I still do, which we'll get into it. Um, it wasn't because my back was hurt. It wasn't that I was injured. It was that I couldn't see my friends. I couldn't go outside. I couldn't compete or sweat. And I realized at the time that my identity was way too wrapped up in volleyball because I couldn't gain. Any of the things that I valued in life outside of the volleyball playing field. Um, so I guess to start this thing off, I want to know what your guys is, why is currently and how it has changed over the past X amount of years. So here, I'll Let me give you an example. There's a book called start with why it's by an author named Simon Sinek And there's some really good things in there But basically your why needs to include your own motivation for doing what you do So what you do is volleyball in this context But why do you do it and it needs to explain how you provide value for others? What change you're trying to make in the world and how you do things differently than others? So usually it's a statement, but it should be clear and specific. Um, it doesn't have to be a statement. It can be an idea, I guess, in your case.

Mathias 3:42

Yeah. I don't know exactly how to answer that, but I'll just say that. I think I always played volleyball to get to the top. That's all I ever focused on was getting better so that I could get to the next level. And I think that's, that doesn't include nearly everything that Simon Sinek's talking about with the factors of having a why, which I don't know if that's great, because I feel like just playing to get to the next level, playing to get to the top is like quite selfish and also really ambiguous. Like where's the top? Right. I've never defined actually what that is or where I'm going because I was just I'm looking ahead to try to improve myself essentially and

Jesse 4:48

Well here, let me ask you this.

Mathias 4:50

Mm

Jesse 4:51

hmm And I hope you don't mind me sharing this with the listeners, but you haven't played volleyball since when is it? November? December?

Mathias 4:58

January?

Jesse 5:00

January.

Mathias 5:01

Well, yeah, I guess I played in

Jesse 5:02

December Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you haven't played in a while. You were concussed. Well, basically, where did your will to live come from when volleyball was removed?

Mathias 5:14

Yeah, I think, well, first off, let me explain how I got into that situation because I think it really relates to why I was playing volleyball. If I was only ever playing to get better, the thought of taking a month off To fully recover from those concussions was like unbearable because I just felt those like people around me getting better and I didn't have the chance to improve and I couldn't bear not moving forward. And so I pushed through multiple concussions, um, because I was so wrapped up in, in the process of improvement and getting to that unattainable goal of the top. Um, so I think that's how I, how I got into that situation. Um, things have changed for sure, and I put, I took so much confidence from, from being a volleyball player and being on that trajectory of, of getting better. Um, and things kind of fell apart like over the last year or so. I was just dealing with those concussions and having to take so much time away from the game, but where I've kind of moved to is, My identity is no longer able to be based on me as a volleyball player. Now I've kind of shifted it to, um, identifying with the character traits that I've acquired on my volleyball journey. So, from, from, This adventure that I've been on with volleyball, I've become quite disciplined. I know I work hard. I know I can face challenges. I've been consistent. I know I can be a good teammate. And I think that's been a big learning curve for me because, uh, now I can, now I can apply my identity to any kind of. Activity. All of those things that I've learned, all those character traits that I've built up, they can apply to, to anywhere else. Um, whereas before I was, I was just a volleyball player.

Jesse 7:35

Yeah. That's super cool. Like when I was injured, I worked with a therapist and, and it wasn't, I mean, obviously I missed volleyball, but it wasn't the volleyball that I missed. The teamwork and the problem solving and the building relationships and the failing and learning and like things like that. And then that's, that's when I made the switch into education because I found that teaching, especially the younger kids gave me those same things that I valued, like teamwork and problem solving and working together and stuff. I think that's super important to you. So I'm obviously, I'm not glad you got concussed, but I'm glad you, you learned that about yourself and you,

Mathias 8:14

Because I always, I always knew that my identity was heavily wrapped up in volleyball, and I honestly had no problem with that because that was my only goal. I wanted everything in my life to be focused on volleyball and getting this unattainable goal. Um, and so I knew that it would be challenging if ever there was a time when, when I couldn't play. And yeah, luckily my kind of, my injury like happened over time, essentially like each concussion would just get worse and worse. So I'd have to take longer time off. So I kind of had a nice, almost like gradual, release from the game. Um, so I had time to think about this and, uh, and yeah, reshape my identity. But I think had I been just full steam ahead and had like an acute injury that took me out of the game forever, I think that would have been really difficult.

Jesse 9:19

What about you? Do you want to talk about your identity over the last couple of years?

Oog 9:25

Yeah, first off, I just want to say that I think it's really cool that we're all kind of figuring ourselves out as not just volleyball players. Like, I feel like Jesse, you had your big second year. That was your kind of big year to figure yourself out. Like, I think this year for me, last year was really big. And like TS, now that you're starting to kind of get there, it's, it's just cool to see. Um, but yeah, I think like growing up, my identity was always in volleyball for the wrong reasons. And I think the reason I say that is because I always wanted to do, like as the younger brother, I always wanted to do what you two were doing and I always wanted to just do it better, So like, all of, all of my identity was wrapped up in being the best I could be because I wanted to be better than you two. And then you hit a point where it's, that's not going to happen just based on like Jesse's U18, I'm U14. I'm not going to Be better than Jesse, you know, like, and then once I hit you 18, you can't quantify that anymore. So you're trying to figure out, okay, like what am I, what am I really working towards? And to me, it came down to relationships I think that those are what I would rather have my identity in. Like I got injured first semester this year and I was out for five weeks. And I found that I wasn't actually mad that I couldn't play volleyball because I still got to sit on the bench. I still got to hang out with the guys. I still came on trips. I could still sit on the bike. And do like, I can still get my exercise. So it wasn't, it wasn't the physicality of volleyball that I missed. It was being in those gritty moments with my friends, Like volleyball is not my, not my driving force. Volleyball is just a way for me to, one, it's a means to an end. I'm going to go get the degree that I want, and it's also a way for me to build a community that I want, and the community that I want is the people around me, so I think, I don't really have a, a volleyball specific why, and I think that's why I struggled a lot, like, this, these last kind of three years, because when volleyball wasn't going good, I didn't have anything else that I could, like, go to, It's hard because you always kind of feel like a, like, you know, imposter syndrome, where it's like, you should be good at this, but you're not, And everyone expected me to be more than I was. In my mind, I was like, I'm not a good volleyball player. I don't actually know what imposter syndrome is, to be honest, but mom used it once.

Jesse 12:16

I think imposter syndrome is, you think people think that you should be better than you are, although it's probably likely that everyone was perfectly okay and happy with who you were and what you were at, but it's just, it's the stories you tell yourself is the imposter syndrome, I think.

Oog 12:36

So I kind of had to find my own, like my own thing. For me, like that's farming. I think it's the coolest frigging thing in the world. Um, and, but even there, like I have identity troubles in that like area of my life too, because it's not an easy industry to go into. and Like everyone's like, oh, you're not a farmer. It's like, okay, you don't have to be a farmer to have a passion for farming and I think that's allowed me to grow more in both areas of my life in volleyball and In that side of my life, because it gave me the opportunity to, when volleyball wasn't going good, have something else that I could be like, Hey, like, can I, can I teach this to you? Or can I show you this? Or like, I've learned this today. This is really cool. And I'm happy about this.

Jesse 13:30

No, that's a really, really good point. I like the word, the word passion you used having a passion. I think that's your why, like, if you're so passionate about something. Getting up in the morning is easy. You know, like you are so passionate about farming that you don't mind waking up at 630. T. S. you're so disciplined and you work so hard that getting up for a 630 lift is easy because that's what you want to do. I have no problem waking up to go to practicum because I like being with the kids. You know, like when you find that passion, that why, I think it really clears things up. But I think, um, when you're trying to find your identity or your why, an easy way to go about that is to, to list your priorities. What are your priorities in life? And I think for me, oftentimes when I got burnt out, I was prioritizing the wrong thing or the things that didn't align with my values because I was no longer getting joy from the things that I was doing. And that's how I got burnt out. Um, and when you lose that joy, obviously you don't feel confident. You don't want to get up in the morning. Um, so I guess my question to you is what are your priorities? and how do you manage your priorities with the needs or priorities of the team and those around you?

Oog 15:13

I think I have three priorities when it comes to training or like volleyball. My first is to make sure that at least one person was happy that I was at practice. And what I mean by that is when I go into the gym, I'm going to fire up one dude. And just be so happy for him after he does cool things. And I think, cause for me, seeing other people succeed is more exciting for me than seeing myself succeed because I don't have the ability to be happy for myself in a valuable sense. Interesting. for whatever reason in my mind, I will never be able to be satisfied or happy with what I did on the court. I feel like I'm always like, Oh, but I missed that. And I missed that. And I, like, I'm just overcritical. And I think all three of us are overcritical. I remember Ben Joe telling me that in my first year, he was like, you're just an Elser. The Elser curse is that you're overcritical. If I switch it away from volleyball and just lean into other people. I find that I'm way happier for them than I am for myself. And I think that that's kind of a nice, a nice piece.

Mathias 16:32

You ever tried like to figure out how you can be happy for yourself?

Oog 16:37

I've tried to figure it out, but I can't on my own. I think something that helps me a lot is having a different part of my life. And that's where my, like my farming and like my hunting and that kind of side of me really comes to light because I am happy with whatever, because I'm new to it. I think I've been too much involved in high level volleyball and too overly critical of myself. To be able to be happy, if that makes sense.

Mathias 17:22

Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I mean, yeah, it's real. And I'm sure a lot of people also feel that I think it's, it's quite normal to be your own harshest critic, I think. one thing that when we're talking about priorities here, I think everyone prioritizes themselves because that's the only person that you spend a hundred percent of your time with. So when someone comes up to you after a game and they compliment your spiking, for example, but you aren't happy with your passing, they probably don't even remember you're passing. The only reason you remember it is because you were there in every single one of those moments. There's been, one of the things that was really liberating for me, um, when I realized that, like, people don't, people don't notice those bad things as much as you notice them in yourself, is after, uh, after one game at Trinity, my friend Sam was in the, in the crowd and he was wearing a jersey, just supporting, and then after the game, people were going up to him and asking for photos because they thought he was brody. And they thought he played. So that's how little, people, maybe not everyone, but it's possible that people notice that little about what you do. But those things that weigh down on you so heavily are there because you're the only one that lived every single one of them. You know what I mean? And I think

Oog 18:53

we put so much emphasis on, on what matters. In what I've been trying to do this last season was, you know, Figured out what actually matters. And I think that that's kind of the priorities. And so in the grand scheme of things, if I had a bad day at practice, does it actually matter, like, why am I mad at volleyball? It was two hours out of 24 that ruined the rest of my day. And I kind of took a step back and I was like, this can't happen. Like I, I found myself coming home, just pissy pants and. Like, it takes a toll on your relationships. It takes a toll on yourself. It takes a toll on like my roommates were just like, I don't want to be around you when you're pissy pants.

Mathias 19:40

Yeah. I think it's, uh, like you were saying, you have to invest so much into the sport. To get better and to improve. But the only thing you can control is your input and your process and your decisions and your actions, but the results and the output is beyond your control. And I think that's, those are the things that you can learn to leave behind is the results and how you feel about the result, good or bad. But I think when you can control those things, you can control the outcome. Maybe it doesn't weigh on you as much.

Oog 20:29

I think, I think when you come back to priorities, I definitely don't think that there's a difference between volleyball priorities and life priorities. for example, another priority that I have is just trying to be a good person, like being a good person or a good man is like one of the biggest priorities I have in my life and I'm not good at it because I, like some people will say that I'm, I'm a good person, but I have a short fuse. I'm stubborn. I have a lot of vices. Like, I think that being a good person or a good man can also be on the court. Like if that's my priority on the court. I'm going to be a good teammate.

Mathias 21:18

Yeah. I was going to say, Jesse, the section on priorities, you were talking about like your priorities versus the team's priorities. Do you feel that those are often in conflict with each other?

Jesse 21:39

Um, I feel like when I get burnt out. It's because I'm prioritizing other people's feelings and other people's emotions and the health of other people, which I think is a good thing. but when I, yeah, when they become in conflict, when I, my teammates health above my own, I think that's a problem. And that's when I get burnt out. I'm trying to deal with three people's well being, you know, I think that's what I'm trying to talk about.

Mathias 22:13

Yeah. That's yeah. That's a lot of pressure.

Jesse 22:17

Because I think burn, like we had a lot of questions about being burnt out and I think it's. Being burnt out is an emotional thing. It's not like you can't jump anymore. It's like, you don't want to be there anymore.

Mathias 22:31

Yeah. In that moment, you're saying you have to prioritize yourself, make a change. Yeah, I want to, I want to say how I think about this, or I've done this, because I think it's different than you guys, but I always felt that what was best for me was also best for the team, and what was best for the team was also best for me. And I don't know if that's just, that just happened through luck, that my priorities were the same as the team's. But, I always felt that, maybe it's because my goals were aligned with the team's, but I always felt like when I did something for me, It would also be in the best interest of the team. And whatever was in the best interest of the team would also be in the best interest for me because I'm on the team.

Jesse 23:28

Yeah. Fair. Okay. Um, I want to talk about body image stuff because I don't know the science behind it. But I think it affects a lot more people than people think, especially athletes. Um, so I guess my, my question is, do you guys struggle with body image stuff? I don't know. We never really talked about it. I don't think you and I have a little bit, but TS, I don't think you and I have ever talked about it. So I'm, I'm curious. I want to have a conversation about this.

Oog 24:04

Yeah. So I struggle with it every day. Um, it all kind of starts back from like when I'm a kid and I think this could be a big PSA to coaches. But if you have someone in your training group that is just like taller than everybody else or just a little bit stockier, don't call him big man because that is I think the number one driver of my body image issues. Is being in like football and rugby and everyone called me big man or basketball. Everyone called me big man. And then I just always thought of it like not tall, you're big. And then like, Oh, to the three of us, I'm definitely the huskiest husky best. But

Mathias 24:52

like,

Oog 24:55

I've had to convince myself for many years that I'm not overweight. and for me, it comes really far down to what I was taught as a kid and how my relationship with food has been. And I think, every morning I wake up and look in the mirror and I could point out five different things and I'm like, I wish I could change them.

Jesse 25:28

How do you, how do you feel better about yourself? Have you found anything that worked? because I I'm the same guy I Especially after my injury I lost faith in my body. Basically. I lost trust in my body and I started to see it And when I was bedridden, basically, like I also, my body started to look different and I didn't like, I didn't like how I felt and I didn't like how I looked and that still sticks with me to this day. But one thing I've, I've tried to do just similar to what Tia said in last episode is just like, be so grateful and Being impressed with your body and how it moves and the tasks that it can accomplish. And I've, experimented with saying things out loud, basically like speaking to my shoulder or like speaking to my legs and like trying to, trying to see my body in a positive light, you know? Um, but I'm, and I wanted to say it too, that I think your point is a really good point at how. heavily words are weighted, especially when we're younger and even, even well into my university days, someone would make a joke or, uh, a comment or and you just like start to think. So it's a good reminder that how heavily words are weighted. But I wanted to ask you, I wanted to ask you how much of a role social media plays in your body image issues or did or has.

Oog 27:16

When I was younger, I don't think it did very much. I think it was definitely more just being on a team, like athletics, because I was never the most athletic. And it depends on how you want to define athletic, like athletic, as in can play a lot of sports. Yes. I'm not the highest jumper. I'm not the heaviest lifter. I'm incredibly average on all like testing metrics on teams. There would just be a bunch of like little dudes with 5 percent body fat that would jump way higher than me. They might've not been more athletic than me, but they had better tests. It's metrics. Dude, that's a really

Jesse 28:03

good point. Metrics? Even, like, I'll share something. I am so, so nervous, no, nervous isn't even the right word. I'm almost scared to go to Gatineau in a week and a half because of that stupid body mass index test we have to do. Yeah, and they have all your BMI's from the last five years and then they like rank it and they see where you've been and where you're at and like you could be hitting your spin serve harder than you've ever hit it. You could, your eyes on defense could be the best they've ever been. Like you're touching every ball on defense. You're the hardest working, but your BMI went up by 2 percent and it's like this huge deal. And then same thing with the, you know, The jump tests and the sprint tests and stuff. Those are, I understand a little bit more of those, the reason behind those, cause those have a direct correlation ish. But if you're, if you're spiking, whatever, 450 at 11, three, you don't like, you don't need to jump higher. You know, you create your toolbox with what, with what body you have. And I think that's where my, my celebrating your body and celebrating what it can accomplish comes from, you know?

Oog 29:24

And social media might play a role in it just because it's so readily available to see elite athletes around the world on your phone, right in front of you before bed. Like, you know, like every, every single minute of the day you could see someone that is in better shape than you.

Mathias 29:41

When

Oog 29:44

it came down to it, my body image issues always stemmed from who I was around. And I'm not saying it's like the team that I was on, who

Jesse 29:56

I

Oog 29:57

compared myself. Yeah. Like,

Jesse 30:00

yeah, that's a big one.

Oog 30:01

yeah, just the people that I surround myself with. I realized that maybe I should look like that or I should be like that. And I think that's when you get into bad is when you start saying you should, or you cause really it's going to be whatever you want.

Jesse 30:16

T. S. What about you? Do you, have you ever struggled with body image stuff? No,

Mathias 30:24

I'm going to say not really, but I would say I'm always dissatisfied with what I've got. It doesn't weigh on me too heavily because I feel like I have the ability to change it to how I want it to be. I had a question for you guys, do you guys think it's attainable how you want, how you want your body to look?

Oog 30:56

I've thought about that a lot and I don't think so because the things about me that I'm mad about it's like, Oh, I wish my calves were, weren't as big. And I wish quads were a little bit, you know, Like physical makeup things that make me less picturesque athletic than other people, which I think really weighs on me. Like I'm not, not the lightest on my feet and I'm not. Like, I have a lot of just bone mass that I need to move, so I'm not going to float around like someone who's 185 pounds and it's going to look a little bit more effort consuming when I do it than when they do it. And I think that's where my body image stuff comes from is how my body looks when I'm doing things compared to other people.

Jesse 31:57

Interesting. Yeah. I think really, that's really interesting. Appreciate it. I appreciate you sharing that. Because mine is actually the opposite. When I get moving, and I'm playing a sport I love, I forget all about it. And I look up and I see myself on the Jumbotron, and I actually like the way I look. It's like when I'm sitting on the plane, and I can, like, feel, like, my tummy being, like, pushed against the seatbelt. Or like, like, stuff like that. That's when I really struggle with it. So it's really cool of you.

Oog 32:35

Like there was a while there this year where I didn't watch video because I didn't like how I looked when I played and I would like not purposefully not look at the TV and practice because I was like, it'll make me have a bad practice because I'll be more focused on how do I make myself look better than playing, which is so backwards, but it's just, that's the way that my mind's been wired and like, not having picture perfect skills.

Mathias 33:10

I think, I think maybe, I don't know if this is a good idea, but I think it might be important to discern whether you don't like those things or you think other people don't like those things, you know, genuine, like genuinely decide for yourself what you think of stuff rather than trying to project what you think other people think, because that is an impossible task. to know what other people are thinking. And maybe it's not, not super related to this, but I used to struggle with that a lot in game, like thinking about what the crowd thinks of me, thinking about what the coach thinks of me, thinking about what my teammates are thinking of me. And that that's one of the biggest wastes of time. And I don't, I don't know if I've gotten over that or if I have how I did, but I think it's important to decide for yourself what, what you actually think. And then going back to this body thing, again, I don't know if this is helpful, but for me, when I have those thoughts, I start to think, what can I do about it? Kind of what I shared in the last episode. And I think that always gives me, it gives me a sense of control in my life, which I like a lot. And if the answer to that question is nothing, then that's when it's important to really work through letting it go.

Jesse 35:00

That's interesting. That's a good point. Definitely easier said than done.

Mathias 35:06

Absolutely.

Jesse 35:06

But it's, it's a good, but it's a good reminder.

Mathias 35:09

Like for myself, if I look in the mirror and I, I feel like I'm looking super skinny, I ask myself what can I do about it, and then maybe I'll go to the gym, and I'll eat a big meal, a bunch of protein, and then I'll feel better about myself, because I'm, yeah, I'm taking control of my life and moving in the direction I want to. The difficult part is those things that you can't change.

Jesse 35:32

I think the problem, at least that I've experienced, is I feel so, and I'm not as disciplined as you are, Tias, and I'm not as like black and white, I guess, because sometimes when I look in the mirror, I feel so discouraged that I'm not, I'm not going to get up and go to the gym. Like I'm not going to walk to the grocery store and get the proper food because I feel so discouraged. You know, like,

Mathias 36:03

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, I think that can kind of relate

Jesse 36:10

to over it's overwhelming And

Mathias 36:12

especially with body stuff the changes are so healthy changes are so slow I was going to say, back to this idea that I spoke about earlier with um, you being with yourself 100 percent of the time. I think that's, that's, Like, nobody notices those things that, that you don't like about yourself, or maybe they do, but they don't think about them nearly in the same way that you do.

Oog 36:45

Well, and one of the things that's kind of helped me is like having someone be like, dude, I love your calves. It's kind of weird when they say that, but it's like, okay, maybe the things that I'm insecure about are the things that I don't like about myself are actually things that other people are jealous of. Or actually things that other people admire.

Mathias 37:05

Or haven't thought about ever. Oog, I've never thought about your calves in my whole life. Dude, I, I know, I know. You know what I mean? yeah, I think everyone has these things that, uh, that consume them. That only consume them. Yeah. Well, for sure.

Jesse 37:26

Well, let's, let's segue into an even more consuming topic. I'm going to try really hard to relate this to volleyball. I feel like we're all over the place today. Well, okay. So there's this book called lost connections, which I've read a couple of times, and essentially it's saying that our world and our society is slipping into a medicated state. And that people are using medication, this isn't specifically in the mental health context, are using medication to medicate depression and anxiety and, and PTSD and all these things. Um, and this author, his name is Johan Hari. Um, he believes that there are eight reasons for depression. And each reason also has a way to get out of depression, basically. And none of them involve, um, medication. And I want to, I want to make it really clear. We're not endorsing or not endorsing the use of, of antidepressants or anything like that. It's just a cool book that I read that I wanted to share with you guys. Um, and it's all about connecting, disconnecting and reconnecting. So the eight causes that he lists of depression are disconnection from meaningful work, disconnection from other people, disconnection from meaningful values, Disconnection due to childhood trauma, disconnection from status and respect, disconnection from the natural world and disconnection from a hopeful or secure future. And the beautiful part about this is they're just, you've just disconnected. So there's always an opportunity to reconnect. So, it's not always all eight. It's not usually just one. It's usually a combination. Like for me, for example, when I got injured, I had disconnection from my meaningful work. I had a disconnection from people because I was stuck in bed, and I had a disconnection from the meaningful values because I couldn't do anything, and that's when I was able, I was able to reconnect to those things through education. So I was able to reconnect through other people. I was able to reconnect to meaningful work that I felt was making a change and, and aligned with my values. Um, quickly, one thing I should add, there is the biological and genetic cause of depression, and sometimes that's just like a chemical imbalance. So you do need the medication. I wanted to add that, but I wanted to ask you guys, if you relate to any of these disconnections, um, and how you can reconnect to those things in a voluble context.

Oog 40:17

in a voluble context, I don't know. but I'll tell you exactly how this has affected me in a non voluble context. Um, I think the meaningful work is. A big one for me, like, uh, showing up somewhere every day. where you don't think that you feel valued or that you feel like you are doing something for the greater good of either the business, the team, wherever, really took a toll on me last summer I didn't like my job, I was thinking this is the worst thing ever. And I had the worst outlook on life. I was like, these are the worst eight hours of my day. Like I'm not being respected. I, I can't do anything right. Then if I took a step back, it's like, yeah, I'm actually doing a very cool job. I'm just learning it and I'm not, not there yet. And they don't trust me with this and this and this yet. Like it'll come. And I think that was kind of my struggle. And that might honestly be under the valued or the status and respect more than the meaningful work. Probably, I'd actually switch it to the status and respect, but I don't know if I've ever felt depression about volleyball. as a whole, I feel like there's more depressing things than volleyball, you know, and yeah,

Jesse 42:02

but

Oog 42:03

I know we're trying to do a mental health and sport thing, but I just don't know.

Mathias 42:08

I think it can happen at any time to anyone, dude. I don't think it's, has anything to do with where you are. I've heard that a lot of billionaires are depressed.

Oog 42:18

I think I just want to hear about your experiences. Yeah. Yeah. If we just say our

Mathias 42:24

own experience, no, I've never been depressed, but I've been sad. with all of these same causes and I've felt lost before and dissatisfied and for me the meaningful work is a huge thing and maybe not meaningful For other people, but meaningful for me. I like to work hard and I like to direct my energy at something and to get good at that thing and to be working towards a goal. That's super important for me. So for example, in, in France for the last three months, I had no goals anymore, and I wasn't working towards anything. I was basically just existing, filling my time, waiting to come home. And yeah, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say I was depressed, but that's not a fun state to be in. And maybe If it had gone on longer, it could have definitely led to depression, but I knew that I was going to find something eventually.

Jesse 43:37

That's what I was, that's what I was going to say, is I bet you I would put money that if you had to do that for a whole year, maybe even six months, that would be tough. But I think it is very interesting, like think about how much, like for instance, sunshine. Can change your mood. Sure. Like when you're in BC and it's dark for most of the year and then the first day of sunshine, like that reconnection to the natural world is so powerful. And like when you get disconnected from these, these things. Like, even like for me, the big one is other people, like if I don't feel like I'm connected to other people, I like going for one meaningful coffee conversation, like refills my cup, you know, like I feel full again. So I think this, these disconnections are really cool way to look at it and, and like, Tia, it's like you've been saying, well, what can I do about it? I think that's another cool way to look at it is. If you are sad or slipping into a depressed state or Whatever it may be, you can be like, what can I do about it? What can I reconnect with to get back to who I want to be.

Oog 44:50

And I had a thought, the thought of no end to something is what puts you in places like that. And then you'll have one day where it's like, you're empowered to do what you want and it'll brighten your, your day. And then might get a little bit dark again, but then you're going to have these spikes. And I think those are your reconnections. And then it all kind of trickles back to your, why, why are you doing this? And why does it matter to you? I don't know how you guys want to put that into a volleyball sense, but that's how it feels to me. Like the thought of no end to something is what puts you in places like that.

Jesse 45:36

I think it's related to volleyball. I think it's really hard to perform when you're feeling down. It's possible. Like it's possible to leave your personal life at the door when you walk to the gym. But I think in order to perform at your best, you want to feel your best and understanding these. Things that you can reconnect to will help you perform at your best. I think, I don't know, Tease, do you have a different?

Mathias 46:03

Yeah, I agree. I think that it all kind of compounds into an ideal performance or not. And yeah, life stuff for sure has a huge impact on your mental clarity when you're trying to play. Um, I want to talk about this connection from status and respect, because that's another part of, of me being injured right now is I'm not part of the volleyball world, at least as a player. And there was a lot of status and respect that came along with Being in that position and I think a way in which I've been dealing with that and people can deal with that is reconnecting with your self respect. That doesn't have to come from, that doesn't have to come from other people.

Jesse 46:55

How would you do that? Or how are you doing that?

Mathias 46:59

Well, I have to find something new to do now for the summer and I have no experience with anything. Besides volleyball. And so I have to, I've been collecting inventory of all these soft skills and character traits that I could apply to a new profession. And I've gained respect for myself because of like the residual impact of being a volleyball player,

Jesse 47:34

That's cool. Well, you're talking about supporting yourself, basically. I want to kind of move on to supporting others. specifically teammates and the power of empathy, I think. Um, do you want to talk about this part with the video we watched?

Mathias 47:57

It's a good one. If anyone wants to watch it, it's Simon Sinek. He's talking about empathy and layoffs, I think might be the close to the title of the video.

Jesse 48:06

Empathy and mass layoffs.

Mathias 48:08

Yeah. So this is in a, in a business context, but it makes perfect sense in a volleyball world. And he said that the typical approach to performance issues is something like someone comes into your office and they say, Your numbers have been down three quarters in a row. If you don't pick up your performance, we don't know what your future will look like at this company. That's a typical response to, to malperformance. And he said, the empathetic approach is someone comes into your office and they say, your numbers have been down for three quarters in a row. Are you okay? I'm worried about you. What's going on? And the idea is that empathy is being concerned about the human being behind the performance and not just the output. By creating an empathetic environment, people can feel safe to be vulnerable, to admit mistakes. It's all about output, and people are trying to hide, themselves. They're being fake. They don't want to show their vulnerable side. But if you have a safe and open environment created through empathy, then people are allowed to say, I made a mistake, or I need help, or I'm scared. I think people want to work in a place or be on a team where they know that people care about them as a human being and not just a volleyball player, not just how well they execute or perform.

Jesse 49:41

Yeah. I want to share a story about this. But actually about this specific video. So Tia's and I were in a leadership book club. I think that's where I first saw this video and our athletic director was the leader of this book club. And he sent this video and said, worth a watch. It's like six minutes. And I thought it was super cool. And I, so I forwarded it to our assistant coach at the time, Adam Schreiber, now the head coach, because he was doing his master's in coaching and he was all about learning new things. And I thought it was an interesting video and I forwarded it to him on Sunday night. And on Thursday, I was having a really bad week. I was overwhelmed. And on Thursday, we are at reps 11 a. m. reps. And we were repping out. There was like five of us in the gym, me and a bunch of young guys. And I just couldn't do anything right. I was distracted. I was flustered and I was shaking balls. I was starting to like, talk really, really poorly to myself. And finally something happened and I just ripped my shirt. And ripping our shirt at Trinity, is like a big no no. And usually the coaches yell at you for that. And he came up to me and he said, Jesse are you okay? And I just like, started crying. I just felt so overwhelmed with like emotion and, I just started crying and I was like, wow, he, he later explained to me that that video I sent him was the reason he asked me if I was okay and not. Got mad at me for my shirt and being frustrated because he knew that there was something deeper that he's like, are you okay? Like what's going on? And I was like, this week just needs to end. Like, I'm so, so sad and so overwhelmed. And he's like, let's go up. And we went up to the TV room and give me a big hug. And we talked about it and cried on his shoulder. And I just thought that was like, I felt so safe. And so. Welcomed in that environment and he could have just as easily been like, Jesse, what the hell are you doing? You know, we don't like you're a sixth year on this team, you know, or it was my fifth year, you know, we don't rip shirts in this gym. Like You're swearing? Like you're swearing in front of the young guys. we don't swear on this team, stuff like that. But he was like, what's going on? Are you okay? I just thought that was such a great example of, of a coach person in a, in a position of leadership. Doing exactly what this video talks about.

Mathias 52:15

That's amazing, I think. Yeah, that's cool. There could be so much more of that, in all environments.

Jesse 52:24

Especially, I think, like, teammate to teammate, I think. That doesn't

Oog 52:28

happen very often. True. I was gonna say, if you observe someone doing the same thing day in, day out, you know when they're off. And you know when they're not themselves. and not many people will go up and be like, Hey man, are you okay? But I think it's a conscious decision to be able to switch it to like, are you okay? Versus why are you playing so bad?

Mathias 53:01

I think what's so amazing about empathy and approaching those situations like that. Is like you said, Jesse makes you feel super safe. And I think it makes you feel like you have a teammate for life. Like you have a teammate in, in this, in the game of life, not just in the game of volleyball. And we know how important teammates are in the game of volleyball. You can't, you can't win volleyball games without them. You can't even play volleyball without them. So why do we think that we can play this game of life without teammates? And I think having the empathy, being able to understand and share, share the feelings that we have, that's how you become a teammate for life. You know?

Jesse 53:52

Has there been a time with someone that you can remember that someone has been empathetic to you, a teammate? And honestly, I'm thinking now, like, it doesn't even have to be on the court. Like, I think you're right, Tia. So a lot of those relationships are built off the court. And when someone is extremely empathetic or vulnerable in front of you, off the court that builds that relationship on the court. I have another story actually, but it's also another coach this year. Um, when our grandpa died and Opa died, um, I got the text from mom, like literally as I was walking into the gym that Opa had died. And I thought that like, I was this professional athlete now, so I got to show up to the gym. I gotta do my job. I gotta, you know, like whatever, put my head down and work hard. Uh, terrible practice, absolutely terrible. And our coach, Stefan comes up to me at the end. He's like, are you okay? Like, you don't see him yourself. And I just started to cry and he gave me a hug and I told him that my Opa died and he like, it almost looked like his heart broke too. He's like, I wish you had told me, I wish that you had let me in and, and told me so that I could, could have given you the day off, like, and I think now, obviously not every coach is going to be like that. But I just want to highlight how valued and, and again, comfortable I felt in that environment that he was creating for me. One, he was looking out for me and he noticed that I was acting different. And two, he was, he was putting my best interest. Yeah. Ahead of like, we only had 12 guys on the team. It would have been 11. They couldn't have played six on six, but he knew that my, it was my best interest to go home and to be with my family.

Mathias 56:02

I think that's amazing. Both those stories. And I think that. It's much easier to be the guy who asks, Are you okay? Than, than to just come out and say, Be the guy who just says what they're dealing with. So I think it definitely starts with the, With the question being asked. Because, yeah, no chance you're gonna walk into the gym And just go up to coach and say, You know, my grandpa died today. Like I don't want to practice or even just telling him that is difficult and maybe it would seem out of place. But asking if someone, if they're asking someone, if they're okay, is the easiest thing in the world. And if they say, yeah, then there was no harm done, right? Yeah. Yeah. Give him a

Jesse 56:49

high five and move on. Yeah. Were you on the team when we implemented the what else thing?

Mathias 56:56

Yeah. I remember hearing that.

Jesse 57:00

So the idea of what else was to, was to create these deep, not deep, not even deep, just create these Conversations with, like, substance, These nutritious conversations, that's what I'm going to call them. But the idea is basically you ask someone how they're doing or how their day's going, and then you kind of keep prodding, like, what else? Like, oh, how's that going? How does that make you feel? Oh, what else? Oh, what else? And you just get people to kind of reveal things about them. And usually, I would say, I mean, depending on how optimistic or pessimistic a person is, I would say usually there's something that someone wants to get off their chest when they show up to practice, even if it's something small. I don't know if you guys experience that too, but I think, it's helpful, especially in the locker room before practice, you kind of get people to, to talk about their day and, oh, there was the worst driver on the way here. They get that off their chest. Bang, it's out of their head or maybe something bigger. Like me and my girlfriend have a big fight. Like I'm really struggling. Like, and then you can take that guy under your wing. But I think these, what else questions and asking how you're doing and creating that vulnerable, um, or not vulnerable, empathetic environment is so helpful for team chemistry and team success. Is there anyone that did that with UT?

Mathias 58:27

I've had some good teammates, especially with, with my concussion stuff. Asking, yeah, how I'm doing and then how it, how it makes me feel, what I'm thinking. It's nice because I feel like most people have something that they're dealing with and they're just waiting for someone to ask about it so that they can share. Because yeah, as I was saying, it's, it's rare that someone would just share without being, without being invited to. So it's nice when, when that happens.

Jesse 59:03

That's a good point. And that leads me into my last thing, which we kind of covered last episode. Um, But journaling, like you said, T. S., it's kind of like free therapy and you don't have to wait for someone to ask you. You ask yourself. And like, it goes back to T. S. what you were saying earlier, too, about, What can I do about it? Well, usually getting something off your chest is a step in the right direction. And if there's no one that's asking you that you're, you're okay, maybe ask yourself and start asking yourself those hard hitting questions and writing down the answers and writing down those thoughts that you're telling yourself. So I think we've all had good experiences with journaling based on our last conversation last week.

Mathias 59:45

Yeah, I agree. Awesome. Okay. Well, I think that, uh, pretty much wraps up today's episode. Um, maybe today we didn't offer many solutions for some of the problems in, in mental health and especially in sport. But we just hope that by sharing some of our experiences and how we've seen it and how we've dealt with it over our careers, that maybe we can just open up a conversation. And allow maybe more people to feel free, uh, to share. And to start those conversations in their own teams. So, um, if you have any questions, again, please, please put those in our, in our question box. We'd love to answer those. Other than that, this has been episode seven of the Pit to Pro podcast. Signing off.

1:00:34

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